BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-13-2012, 06:38 PM   #199
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I do not understand. So it is still an I6? How can it have 3.3l if it is based on the N55?
+1 I give it maybe 1% chance of a 3.3L I6. Maybe.

I'd give it 90% chance of being an I6 3.0 to 3.2L, and personally believe the chance of a V6 is < 10%.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 07:19 PM   #200
John_01
Colonel
John_01's Avatar
Australia
24
Rep
2,052
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia

iTrader: (0)

It had to be inline 6. If you have driven a car with a 90 degree V6, you would understand how unpleasant they are.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 11:54 PM   #201
kueks29
Private First Class
kueks29's Avatar
Germany
1
Rep
101
Posts

 
Drives: BMW E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Anywhere

iTrader: (0)

Yesterday we were at the M-GmbH and it was more than informative!
However, I can not and should not say much here!

It will be a 3.3 liter i6 and I've already said too much.
Also, all rumors to the weight can be nearly as can be!

I'm sorry, but I was a lot of confidence brought against and I keep my word!
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 03:11 AM   #202
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,092
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

The plot thickens.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 08:30 AM   #203
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

So you are positive it is a 3.3L I6. Okay, I can appreciate that.

Have you played around with a displacement calculator to try and estimate what the bore and stroke of the engine are? If not I highly encourage it. Worthwhile exercise to be sure. I am very curious what your predictions are for those figures.

Just keep in mind the 91mm bore center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Yesterday we were at the M-GmbH and it was more than informative!
However, I can not and should not say much here!

It will be a 3.3 liter i6 and I've already said too much.
Also, all rumors to the weight can be nearly as can be!

I'm sorry, but I was a lot of confidence brought against and I keep my word!
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 09:15 AM   #204
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
So you are positive it is a 3.3L I6. Okay, I can appreciate that.

Have you played around with a displacement calculator to try and estimate what the bore and stroke of the engine are? If not I highly encourage it. Worthwhile exercise to be sure. I am very curious what your predictions are for those figures.

Just keep in mind the 91mm bore center.
I think if they want use the N55 block they only could make an "high-stroke" engine, because the avaliable bore is very restricted ... and also the basic N55 has an higher stroke than bore.
I donīt know if an stroker Turbo works well in an high-performence car like the M3/M4.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 09:25 AM   #205
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
I think if they want use the N55 block they only could make an "high-stroke" engine, because the avaliable bore is very restricted ... and also the basic N55 has an higher stroke than bore.
I donīt know if an stroker Turbo works well in an high-performence car like the M3/M4.
We are definitely on the same page Uli.

I am nevertheless curious to hear what kueks has to say if even bothers to do as I suggested. In my book, if you are going to post up alleged inside information on a forum you should at least take the time to properly vet it.

Bear in mind, I am not saying they couldn't build a 3.3L I6, but as you point out it does not present itself as a good solution to power a 450hp performance car. I am not an engine builder (though I have helped build an engine or two in my time - I6s at that) so perhaps my viewpoint is skewed, but it isn't readily apparent to me why you would go through the pain of increasing the displacement of an engine by just 10% only to be left with the bore profile a Caterpillar diesel. It seems like a lot of time and money spent on the wrong part of the problem. Why not a more advanced turbocharging and induction system instead? Then you are reaping the benefits without ending up with some crazy thin cylinder wall or insane rod ratio or both.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #206
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,452
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
I think if they want use the N55 block they only could make an "high-stroke" engine, because the avaliable bore is very restricted ... and also the basic N55 has an higher stroke than bore.
I donīt know if an stroker Turbo works well in an high-performence car like the M3/M4.

Neiter me Uli. If the engine is really as Kueks says, I even wonder how can it rev till 7.000 RPM or be reliable if bore was increased, especially with such high boost. The engine of the McLaren MP4-12C revs till 8.500 RPM, but it also has stroke of 69.9 mm.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 09:33 AM   #207
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
We are definitely on the same page Uli.

I am nevertheless curious to hear what kueks has to say if even bothers to do as I suggested. In my book, if you are going to post up alleged inside information on a forum you should at least take the time to properly vet it.

Bear in mind, I am not saying they couldn't build a 3.3L I6, but as you point out it does not present itself as a good solution to power a 450hp performance car. I am not an engine builder (though I have helped build an engine or two in my time - I6s at that) so perhaps my viewpoint is skewed, but it isn't readily apparent to me why you would go through the pain of increasing the displacement of an engine by just 10% only to be left with the bore profile a Caterpillar diesel. It seems like a lot of time and money spent on the wrong part of the problem. Why not a more advanced turbocharging and induction system instead? Then you are reaping the benefits without ending up with some crazy thin cylinder wall or insane rod ratio or both.
Someone told me that they maybe use the turbosystem from the N57-S and make the car an real "TriTurbo" and also ad ePower, if this System is avalilable in time ... could be an option !?

Last edited by Uli_HH; 03-14-2012 at 09:45 AM.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 09:43 AM   #208
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Someone told me that they maybe use the turbosystem from the N57-S and make the car an real "TriTurbo" and als ad ePower, if this System is avalilable in time ... could be an option !?
The N57S is an incredible engine - 125h/L from a diesel? This state of the art engine is now making over 50hp more than its state of the art gasoline counterpart. And this level of power was previously unheard of in a production automobile (even 100hp is rare - basically limited to just BMW and Audi). If they can get that much power from a diesel then there is no doubt in my mind they can get 150hp/L with a gasoline engine using similar technology.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 09:45 AM   #209
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

I think, there are only two options that are really realistic for what kueks quotes ... first they developed an complete new bigger I6 engine block to reach the 3.3ltr. displacement ... or they told kueks not the full truth and the engine has really 3.3ltr. but is indeed the rumored "secret" V6 that they want to hide from early publishing ... but nobody knows!?
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 10:25 AM   #210
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,452
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
I think, there are only two options that are really realistic for what kueks quotes ... first they developed an complete new bigger I6 engine block to reach the 3.3ltr. displacement ... or they told kueks not the full truth and the engine has really 3.3ltr. but is indeed the rumored "secret" V6 that they want to hide from early publishing ... but nobody knows!?
Why tell something not true? Just keep silent, no?

It is so funny, that the closer we come to the lunch of the M3 F80, the less we know.

If 3.3l is true, then it can only be, from my understanding, the V6 or a new I6 block, not based on the N55, but using the S63T parts, such as pistons and other small technical parts.
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 10:44 AM   #211
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,092
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Why tell something not true? Just keep silent, no?

It is so funny, that the closer we come to the lunch of the M3 F80, the less we know.

If 3.3l is true, then it can only be, from my understanding, the V6 or a new I6 block, not based on the N55, but using the S63T parts, such as pistons and other small technical parts.
Yeah, I don't buy the theory that BMW blatantly lied to this group of potential buyers at that event. Kueks has owned nearly a dozen BMWs in the past, half of which are M models. Something is definitely rotten in Denmark, but I doubt it's intentional misinformation on BMW's part.

After all, multinational corporations hold themselves to the highest moral standards

(Edit: Scott, before you jump down my throat again, please know that it was a joke I love you, buddy).
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 11:21 AM   #212
SCOTT26
Brigadier General
SCOTT26's Avatar
311
Rep
3,241
Posts

 
Drives: Frozen Dark Silver 30 Jahre
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Another USP selling point for the M4 over the M3 Sedan. M4 arrives at the tide of volume CFRP being spread further . M3 is too early besides some markets refuse to give up "Luxury" equipment such as a sunroof. Although M did fight against it and won for the M6 , they are in the midst of doing so for the M4.
__________________
Electrified
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 01:22 PM   #213
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,092
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Another USP selling point for the M4 over the M3 Sedan. M4 arrives at the tide of volume CFRP being spread further . M3 is too early besides some markets refuse to give up "Luxury" equipment such as a sunroof. Although M did fight against it and won for the M6 , they are in the midst of doing so for the M4.
I'm holding my breath for an M6-style roof (or something with an equally interesting shape) for the M4.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-14-2012, 04:45 PM   #214
as7920
Lieutenant Colonel
as7920's Avatar
United Kingdom
35
Rep
1,772
Posts

 
Drives: AW M135i 5dr auto
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
.......M3 is too early besides some markets refuse to give up "Luxury" equipment such as a sunroof.....
Sunroof

CF Roof
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2012, 12:03 AM   #215
kueks29
Private First Class
kueks29's Avatar
Germany
1
Rep
101
Posts

 
Drives: BMW E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Anywhere

iTrader: (0)

Has anyone claimed that the M3 engine is based on the N55?
I think not quite the ...
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2012, 02:11 AM   #216
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,092
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

The pea soup thickens.

So Garching is making a truly bespoke I6 for the F8X. I can get behind that...
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2012, 04:28 AM   #217
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,452
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

Ok, if this is a bespoke I6 engine, then I am all for it, 335i/M335i will stay inferior. Now I can really see the M2 coming with the M3 F80 engine, two cylinders chopped off, to make it a short I4 2.2l.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2012, 08:08 AM   #218
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
Uli_HH's Avatar
Germany
33
Rep
572
Posts

 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

iTrader: (0)

Infos and new Vids (incl. AB chase!):
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662169
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2012, 09:13 AM   #219
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
The pea soup thickens.

So Garching is making a truly bespoke I6 for the F8X. I can get behind that...
I am skeptical to say the least. If they build a brand new engine, why limit themselves to only 3.3L? It makes no sense. They've built a 3.2L using the M50 architecure before (granted, that it was an iron block).
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2012, 09:18 AM   #220
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
184
Rep
13,844
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Infos and new Vids (incl. AB chase!):
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662169
I see that they also claim that the F82 comes in 2013 and the F83 comes in 2014, which I will happily say on record right now has an absolutely zero percent chance of happening.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2013 bmw m3, 2013 bmw m4, 2013 m3, 2013 m4, 2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 renders, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f80 m3 video, bmw f80 video, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, bmw spy, bmw spy photo, bmw spy photos, bmw spy pic, bmw spy pics, bmw spy video, bmw spy videos, bmw spyshot, bmw spyshots, f30 m3 renders, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 render, f80 m3 renders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST