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      03-03-2012, 04:25 PM   #133
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      03-03-2012, 07:22 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The 4er Coupe and M3 Sedan is launched (not in US model year, but actual year) 2013 and given the summer release will possibly show at the IAA that September.
With the 4er Coupe and Cabrio being months apart . The 4er Coupe will definitely be in the US by the close of 2013. Meaning that the 4er Cabrio and M3 Sedan will be available in the US by Spring 2014.
The Gran Coupe 4er is expected in mid-2014. With the M appearing later in2015.

M4 Coupe and Cabrio will arrive in late 2014(Europe) early 2015(US.etc) on the market when you take in launch cycles.
Thanks- I had heard March of 2013 so a year from now the 4 would be launched as the cabrio first with the M3 sedan following that fall with the 4 coupe, capitalizing on the summer for the cabrio like the 6er. BMW is seemingly relying less and less to debut cars at auto shows. Still a long time out but I like your timeline.
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      03-03-2012, 10:48 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The 4er Coupe and M3 Sedan is launched (not in US model year, but actual year) 2013 and given the summer release will possibly show at the IAA that September.
With the 4er Coupe and Cabrio being months apart . The 4er Coupe will definitely be in the US by the close of 2013. Meaning that the 4er Cabrio and M3 Sedan will be available in the US by Spring 2014.
The Gran Coupe 4er is expected in mid-2014. With the M appearing later in2015.

M4 Coupe and Cabrio will arrive in late 2014(Europe) early 2015(US.etc) on the market when you take in launch cycles.
Why do you still refer to it as the "M3 SEDAN" if thats the only body style the M3 will be offered in? Makes me suspicious of this whole "M4" business. Am i reading too much into all of this

Maybe the coupe and cabrio will maintain the M3 moniker and the M4 will be the Gran Coupe
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      03-03-2012, 10:55 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Jblack4083 View Post
Why do you still refer to it as the "M3 SEDAN" if thats the only body style the M3 will be offered in? Makes me suspicious of this whole "M4" business. Am i reading too much into all of this

Maybe the coupe and cabrio will maintain the M3 moniker and the M4 will be the Gran Coupe
He says "M4 Coupe" in the text that you quote -- I think Scott is simply being redundant for clarity's sake.
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      03-03-2012, 11:04 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The 4er Coupe and M3 Sedan is launched (not in US model year, but actual year) 2013 and given the summer release will possibly show at the IAA that September.
With the 4er Coupe and Cabrio being months apart . The 4er Coupe will definitely be in the US by the close of 2013. Meaning that the 4er Cabrio and M3 Sedan will be available in the US by Spring 2014.
The Gran Coupe 4er is expected in mid-2014. With the M appearing later in2015.

M4 Coupe and Cabrio will arrive in late 2014(Europe) early 2015(US.etc) on the market when you take in launch cycles.
Thanks for the update. So US dates are as follows:

F80 - Spring 2014
F82 - Spring 2015
F83 - Spring 2015
F85/6 - Fall 2015

So if I wanted to skip the first production year of each model, that would add anywhere between 6-12 months on each of those dates, depending on how the MY cycles shake up by then. Still 3-4 years away from a purchasing decision...

By the way, clear it up for us once and for all. What's the chassis designation for the 4-series Gran Coupe? F35/85 or F36/86?
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      03-03-2012, 11:12 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by coldXDrive View Post
Dig the winter testing...
Are the Ms available with X drive?
Not the F8X M cars. The only AWD M "cars" (or "M" cars, if you prefer) are the X5M and X6M.

BMW also announced the "M Performance" line of cars that are supposed to slot in right below the true M cars, and those have all been X-drive models so far -- M550d touring and saloon, X6 M550d, X5 M550d, X1 M35i, and M135i (available w/ and w/out X-drive). Unfortunately, the only one making its way Stateside so far is the X1 M35i.
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      03-04-2012, 07:30 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Thanks- I had heard March of 2013 so a year from now the 4 would be launched as the cabrio first with the M3 sedan following that fall with the 4 coupe, capitalizing on the summer for the cabrio like the 6er. BMW is seemingly relying less and less to debut cars at auto shows. Still a long time out but I like your timeline.
I have not heard anything regarding the introduction of the Cabrio first over the Coupe. The 6er used that because of some last minute detailing.
So far the Coupe and Cabrio are on schedule with the Coupe first.
and we should see that in over a year's time.

Its all a matter of timing , especially in regards to which is closest to the actual market launch. But BMW as are other manufacturers are taking advantage in the countries where sales are sky rocketing especially BRIC countries. So expect BMW to use those shows in Brazil and Russia (Moscow)
to their advantage later this year.

This year it is Beijing, where they intend to steal the show again like they did with the Gran Coupe concept with three world premieres. As well as the Asian debut of the BMW M6 Coupe and Cabrio at the M.Night on the eve of the Beijing show. It will also kick off the events leading to the 2012 M. Festival.
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      03-04-2012, 10:21 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The 4er Coupe and M3 Sedan is launched (not in US model year, but actual year) 2013 and given the summer release will possibly show at the IAA that September.
With the 4er Coupe and Cabrio being months apart . The 4er Coupe will definitely be in the US by the close of 2013. Meaning that the 4er Cabrio and M3 Sedan will be available in the US by Spring 2014.
The Gran Coupe 4er is expected in mid-2014. With the M appearing later in2015.

M4 Coupe and Cabrio will arrive in late 2014(Europe) early 2015(US.etc) on the market when you take in launch cycles.
I just can't get past the 4 name lol. That would be one car I would def debadge! It just doesnt look/sound right: 420i, 428i, 430i, 435i, 435d, M4....lol.

Also, Scott, I notice somewhere you posted a render of the 4er. Is the front end really similar to the 6 series? In my head I've pictured it as a F30 but with bolder headlights and they come at an angle like the shark-like front of the 6er. Am I right? BMW have a tough job for this new 4er coupe. Honestly, even a base 320i facelift model without m-sport looks really good.
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      03-04-2012, 11:50 AM   #141
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I just can't get past the 4 name lol. That would be one car I would def debadge! It just doesnt look/sound right: 420i, 428i, 430i, 435i, 435d, M4....lol.
it is something that will come naturally. In essence the product speaks for itself.

Quote:
Also, Scott, I notice somewhere you posted a render of the 4er. Is the front end really similar to the 6 series? In my head I've pictured it as a F30 but with bolder headlights and they come at an angle like the shark-like front of the 6er. Am I right? BMW have a tough job for this new 4er coupe. Honestly, even a base 320i facelift model without m-sport looks really good.
It is not entirely in proportion but I can give you an idea of how the car will look. It is in form evolutionary from the E92. But uses that sportier edge from the 6er. The headlights flick upwards to join a three-dimensional kidney grille using the language from the F30 with the sporting raked back slant of the 6er.
The rear I would say mixes the 3er especially the edged surfaces on the L. But in a longer and thinner L. shape that reminds me of the L-Shape from the 5er Gran Turismo allbeit smaller and thinner but slopes downwards in that V-angle.
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      03-04-2012, 02:01 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
it is something that will come naturally. In essence the product speaks for itself.
Scott! What's the chassis designation for the 4-series GC?
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      03-04-2012, 02:06 PM   #143
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i think that design is going to look good SCOTT!
But, anyhow, I promised myself a 4 door M3, and I will get one.
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      03-04-2012, 02:39 PM   #144
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Thanks Scott, sounds interesting!
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      03-04-2012, 02:47 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Thanks- I had heard March of 2013 so a year from now the 4 would be launched as the cabrio first with the M3 sedan following that fall with the 4 coupe, capitalizing on the summer for the cabrio like the 6er. BMW is seemingly relying less and less to debut cars at auto shows. Still a long time out but I like your timeline.
I have not heard anything regarding the introduction of the Cabrio first over the Coupe. The 6er used that because of some last minute detailing.
So far the Coupe and Cabrio are on schedule with the Coupe first.
and we should see that in over a year's time.

Its all a matter of timing , especially in regards to which is closest to the actual market launch. But BMW as are other manufacturers are taking advantage in the countries where sales are sky rocketing especially BRIC countries. So expect BMW to use those shows in Brazil and Russia (Moscow)
to their advantage later this year.

This year it is Beijing, where they intend to steal the show again like they did with the Gran Coupe concept with three world premieres. As well as the Asian debut of the BMW M6 Coupe and Cabrio at the M.Night on the eve of the Beijing show. It will also kick off the events leading to the 2012 M. Festival.
7 LCI, X6 M LCI, Rolls Ghost Drophead if sources can be believed
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      03-05-2012, 01:22 AM   #146
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Can't wait until this M3 is officially unveiled. I want to make it my next BMW!
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      03-05-2012, 02:17 AM   #147
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I don't think I would take the front bracings as any sort of definitive evidence that it is I6. Both the 328 and 335 have them and I think we are pretty sure it won't be a 4 cylinder. All it means to me is that whatever engine they are using will fit in the same engine bay and it is easier to leave the front support brace bars (or whatever they are called) the same rather than re-engineering them.
All are Inline engines correct? I'm just going with the logic, that one wouldn't need to re-engineer the front bracings for an Inline engine, than one would for a V egine, as a V6 based off of the V8 would be wider than an Inline engine, 6 or a 4.
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      03-05-2012, 08:07 AM   #148
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All are Inline engines correct? I'm just going with the logic, that one wouldn't need to re-engineer the front bracings for an Inline engine, than one would for a V egine, as a V6 based off of the V8 would be wider than an Inline engine, 6 or a 4.
The V8 in the 7, 6, and 5 all appear the same as well. Those supports are less crucial.

The V6 would be the least cost effective for BMW to do and as we have seen with recent developments that is the name of the game right now. The N55 has the ability to be built up significantly. a brand new block for a V6 makes no sense at this point, if they do it is against everything we have heard through back channels of late.
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      03-05-2012, 11:31 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
The V8 in the 7, 6, and 5 all appear the same as well. Those supports are less crucial.

The V6 would be the least cost effective for BMW to do and as we have seen with recent developments that is the name of the game right now. The N55 has the ability to be built up significantly. a brand new block for a V6 makes no sense at this point, if they do it is against everything we have heard through back channels of late.
As odd as a V6 BMW sounds, it makes sense from a product planning standpoint. M3 buyers will want some meaningful separation from all the N54- and N55-based cars, many of which will wear either an M or an M Performance badge. At the same time, M5 and M6 buyers will want the same separation from the M3, and will be extremely put off if the F8X comes with an S63-derived V8. The only logic split between the two engines is a bespoke V6 derived from the S63 (or if latest rumors are to be believed, from the S65).

BMW created the S65 by lopping off two cylinders from the S85, so why wouldn't they create a new block by implementing the same process on the S63? Or to put it another way:

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      03-05-2012, 03:33 PM   #150
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BMW created the S65 by lopping off two cylinders from the S85, so why wouldn't they create a new block by implementing the same process on the S63?
They wouldn't do that because they had designed the S85 from the beginning to share its architecture with the S65 V8. The design of the engines and the shared cost structure was planned from the outset (although there are many differences between the two as well). The S63 and S63Tu, on the other hand, are essentially evolutions of the N63 regular series engine. I am with mapezzul on this one: when they are trying to improve profitability of the M Division, it makes no sense to go spending a ton of money trying to chase down a high performance V6 from the bones of a V8 architecture.

It would be kind of like them saying: "Hey guys instead of basing the M5 on the 5 series, lets base it on the F30 3 series, but blown up just a little bit in every dimension. This way, we can justify it better to M enthusiasts, even though it cost a lot more money to do it this way with no substantial, tangible benefit."
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      03-06-2012, 04:24 AM   #151
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scott26

You have been quoted a time ago that the F80 M3 gets an conventional engine and the F82/83/85 M4 gets an new further developed engine!

Is that right and/or have your informations have changed until now?

And what does that meen:

- F80 M3 simply with an reinforced 3.0ltr. N55 with an modified TwinScroll- Turbosystem ... and the F8x M4 with the same base engine but more capacity (3.2ltr. to 3.6ltr.) or the same capacity and an more advanced Turbosystem like Bi- or TriTurbo(from the N57-S).

OR
- F80 M3 simply with an reinforced 3.0ltr. N55 with an modified TwinScroll- Turbosystem ... and the F8x M3 with the rumored S63Tü derivated 3.3ltr.V6 BiTurbo.

OR
- F80 M3 comes with an interim engine and gets the new engine when the F82 M4 debuts. As interim engine theoretically comes into question ... the reinforced and tuned N55 or an slightly modified S65.

Thanks and greets
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      03-06-2012, 10:29 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
scott26

You have been quoted a time ago that the F80 M3 gets an conventional engine and the F82/83/85 M4 gets an new further developed engine!

Is that right and/or have your informations have changed until now?

And what does that meen:

- F80 M3 simply with an reinforced 3.0ltr. N55 with an modified TwinScroll- Turbosystem ... and the F8x M4 with the same base engine but more capacity (3.2ltr. to 3.6ltr.) or the same capacity and an more advanced Turbosystem like Bi- or TriTurbo(from the N57-S).

OR
- F80 M3 simply with an reinforced 3.0ltr. N55 with an modified TwinScroll- Turbosystem ... and the F8x M3 with the rumored S63Tü derivated 3.3ltr.V6 BiTurbo.

OR
- F80 M3 comes with an interim engine and gets the new engine when the F82 M4 debuts. As interim engine theoretically comes into question ... the reinforced and tuned N55 or an slightly modified S65.

Thanks and greets
Uli_HH
I highly doubt that BMW would use anything but the same engine across the entire F8X platform. The only wrinkle that I would expect in the development of this engine would be to see it in the X3M before it made its way into the M3 or M4, but that doesn't seem to be happening either.
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      03-06-2012, 11:54 AM   #153
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I highly doubt that BMW would use anything but the same engine across the entire F8X platform.
Agree.

Quote:
The only wrinkle that I would expect in the development of this engine would be to see it in the X3M before it made its way into the M3 or M4, but that doesn't seem to be happening either.
Not so far, although there is still a chance we'll see it this year:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535265
http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555219

I think I also remember SCOTT saying mules should be out testing in public any time now, though I can't find a post to back that up. Still, it would seem unlikely to see it arrive before the F80 M3 since those mules have been out there for some time now. But perhaps the X3 M mules are simply better disguised or just too nondescript to have drawn much interest or attention.
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      03-06-2012, 01:49 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Agree.



Not so far, although there is still a chance we'll see it this year:

http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535265
http://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555219

I think I also remember SCOTT saying mules should be out testing in public any time now, though I can't find a post to back that up. Still, it would seem unlikely to see it arrive before the F80 M3 since those mules have been out there for some time now. But perhaps the X3 M mules are simply better disguised or just too nondescript to have drawn much interest or attention.
I still find the whole idea of an X3M odd. I get placing a monster engine into an X5M in order to compete with the Cayenne Turbo and the ML63, but is there really a market for high performance mid-size SUVs? Stuffing the next-generation F8X engine into an X4M makes more sense, since that's a sportier form factor that will compete with the likes of the Macan and Q5RS (or whatever Audi decides to call the top performing version of the Q5). Of course, from a timing perspective, there's no way that the X4 (let alone the X4M) would beat the F80 to market.
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