BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-13-2012, 11:15 AM   #67
TheBingoBalls
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
19
Rep
1,815
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i, R56 MINI Cooper
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Well, Porsche actually did come out with a 912:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_912

All of the 911 models after the first generation technically do have a different name like 993, 996 ,997, and the new 991 for example. For name recognition sake I suppose, the original model name has been kept though.
I always thought or looked at the 993, 996, 997, and 991 as internal designations like we do with the 3-Series and the E30, E36, E46 and E90, etc.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 11:32 AM   #68
YolkyPalky
Second Lieutenant
7
Rep
270
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 DCT ZCP SPACE GRAY
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4. First of all, I don't think it's even been confirmed this is happening, it's all speculation at this point. Secondly, why would this be so bad? Isn't the new M6 essentially a coupe version of the M5 after all? I don't hear anyone all up in arms over the M5 being only a sedan while M6 is the coupe version of it.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 12:19 PM   #69
DrivenByE30
Colonel
DrivenByE30's Avatar
France
46
Rep
2,901
Posts

 
Drives: '12 F30 Lux 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: OC - SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Fixed.

(When you enumerate all the different models, it is easy to see why a change is naming has become necessary)
Thank you I totally forgot about those two:
One is not so desirable in my eyes (GT)
and
the other one is so desirable to me, i still think it sci-fi (GC)

I am still trying to adjust myself to this potential number shift...


Quote:
Originally Posted by esqu1re View Post
Guy at bank to friend: "Hey, you wanna see my M4?"

Stranger overhearing conversation: "He's got a gun!!!"


Quote:
Originally Posted by YolkyPalky View Post
Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4. First of all, I don't think it's even been confirmed this is happening, it's all speculation at this point. Secondly, why would this be so bad? Isn't the new M6 essentially a coupe version of the M5 after all? I don't hear anyone all up in arms over the M5 being only a sedan while M6 is the coupe version of it.
Because there was never been a M5 coupe... so as coupe version between the 5series and 7 series, calling the M6 is more than logical...

As opposed to the M3 which originally started as a Coupe and to the enthusiast mind such as yourself, the M3 reference is always associated with the coupe, Even for the E36 version, there wasn't a Sedan M3 (sadly)

see the dilemna now?
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 12:39 PM   #70
F80 M3
New Member
1
Rep
10
Posts

 
Drives: X1 xDrive25i X-Line
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: HOME

iTrader: (0)

GOOD NEWS about the M335i
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 01:28 PM   #71
YolkyPalky
Second Lieutenant
7
Rep
270
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 DCT ZCP SPACE GRAY
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post
As opposed to the M3 which originally started as a Coupe and to the enthusiast mind such as yourself, the M3 reference is always associated with the coupe, Even for the E36 version, there wasn't a Sedan M3 (sadly)

see the dilemna now?
I think what was said was that the M model naming will always reflect the underlying series it is based on, so if BMW decides to introduce a 4-series line-up of coupes and convertibles, and have the 3-series be sedan-only, it would logically make sense that the M coupe/convertible based on that series would be M4. This is a much broader decision for BMW than just about the M3 specifically, it is a larger decision about branding and differentiation of the series lineups.

Personally, I think an M coupe or convertible should be a somewhat different car, even if in badge name only, than a four-door sedan, so despite the history blah blah, I would be ok with different M models of coupe/convertible vs sedan.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 01:38 PM   #72
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,084
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
I always thought or looked at the 993, 996, 997, and 991 as internal designations like we do with the 3-Series and the E30, E36, E46 and E90, etc.
Exactly. Not that I care, but Porsche changing the 997 to the 991 is not the same as BMW changing the M3 to the M4. Those designations are purely internal, like BMW's E46, E90, F30, etc, as you mention.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 01:41 PM   #73
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,084
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YolkyPalky View Post
Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4. First of all, I don't think it's even been confirmed this is happening, it's all speculation at this point. Secondly, why would this be so bad? Isn't the new M6 essentially a coupe version of the M5 after all? I don't hear anyone all up in arms over the M5 being only a sedan while M6 is the coupe version of it.
Wrap your head around this paradox: The M6 is the coupe version of the M6 Gran Coupe.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #74
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,084
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivenByE30 View Post

As opposed to the M3 which originally started as a Coupe and to the enthusiast mind such as yourself, the M3 reference is always associated with the coupe, Even for the E36 version, there wasn't a Sedan M3 (sadly)
What.

__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 01:46 PM   #75
DrivenByE30
Colonel
DrivenByE30's Avatar
France
46
Rep
2,901
Posts

 
Drives: '12 F30 Lux 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: OC - SoCal

iTrader: (0)

My bad, i know very well the e36 came with the sedan!
this is my current car:


In fact that's my favorite M3 !! I thought bMW had a moment of genius for selling 4-door M3 since then.

I was very sad when the E46 didn't have one!
I had a moment of finger slip! i meant to type E46! or did they ??


Thanks for the above pic!
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 02:00 PM   #76
Red Bread
Brigadier General
United_States
45
Rep
4,358
Posts

 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Good grief. When the E36 replaced the E30, people were upset that it had a six cylinder. When the E46 replaced the E36, people were upset that it wasn't any more powerful (than the euro E36) and when the E9x came along, people were upset that it had a V8. No one is ever happy, get used to it. The car will be fine, whatever it's called.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 02:01 PM   #77
Frosty
Lieutenant Colonel
Frosty's Avatar
27
Rep
1,909
Posts

 
Drives: Ordered my E92 (7/10/06)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesag3 View Post
German Philosopher, Dr. Friedrich Nitschke proclaims "M3 is dead."
HA HA HA!!! my earlier post was along these lines noone caught my reference.

Well said!!! Kudos!

~Frost
__________________
.................................................. ....................
335i Coupe (6MT) (2007: 9/06 build, pre ordered, only owner): Space Grey / Black Leatherette / Grey Poplar trim / ZCW / ZSP / BMW assist w/ bluetooth / power rear shade / navi with iDrive / comfort access keyless entry /+homelink mirror/ 185,000+miles (Nov-25-2014)
.................................................. ......................
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 02:33 PM   #78
M3_WC
Colonel
29
Rep
2,242
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YolkyPalky View Post
Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4.
Waint until there is a larger price difference between sedan and coupe, just because of the M4 badge.

People will be even more pissed. It will happen, watch.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #79
Red Bread
Brigadier General
United_States
45
Rep
4,358
Posts

 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Waint until there is a larger price difference between sedan and coupe, just because of the M4 badge.

People will be even more pissed. It will happen, watch.
But this is likely to effect the non-M F32 similarly. Not that makes it much better, but the furor should already be simmering down by the time the M4 hits. The E90 was slightly cheaper than the E92, so it's not a total break with tradition either.

But your point is valid, marketing is getting a little out of hand.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #80
Levi
Brigadier General
Levi's Avatar
Czech_Republic
124
Rep
3,450
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Wrap your head around this paradox: The M6 is the 2 door version of the M6 Gran Coupe.
Fixed.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:18 PM   #81
M3_WC
Colonel
29
Rep
2,242
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
But this is likely to effect the non-M F32 similarly. Not that makes it much better, but the furor should already be simmering down by the time the M4 hits. The E90 was slightly cheaper than the E92, so it's not a total break with tradition either.

But your point is valid, marketing is getting a little out of hand.
In 2011, the price gap between the M3 sedan and coupe was $3,000. It is possible for that to nearly double. I feel they will try to move the 4-series and M4 up market. With that in time the msrp will climb.

Look at the price difference between the 5 and 6 series. Although a extreme example, it does shed a little light on what they might try to do. I expect the models after the F30/F32 to have even more of price difference. All while be built on the exact same chassis.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #82
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,084
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Fixed.
I chose my words carefully, Levi There's an ironic subtlety to the sarcasm that is perhaps lost in translation.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:42 PM   #83
TheBingoBalls
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
19
Rep
1,815
Posts

 
Drives: E90 325i, R56 MINI Cooper
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Good grief. When the E36 replaced the E30, people were upset that it had a six cylinder. When the E46 replaced the E36, people were upset that it wasn't any more powerful (than the euro E36) and when the E9x came along, people were upset that it had a V8. No one is ever happy, get used to it. The car will be fine, whatever it's called.
I get what you're saying, it's sometimes hard to accept changes but what you're saying isn't the same. There is no history on what engines ///M cars used (V6, straight-six, V8) it was just a power plant to the chassis (though you could argue NA vs FI, but that's another discussion). The ///M3, for the most part, has always been synonymous with the 3-Series (coupe or sedan).

The name isn't going to make a difference on how the car is going to drive, but for the history buffs it's something they want to have because the history there is so rich.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:43 PM   #84
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,084
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
But this is likely to effect the non-M F32 similarly. Not that makes it much better, but the furor should already be simmering down by the time the M4 hits. The E90 was slightly cheaper than the E92, so it's not a total break with tradition either.

But your point is valid, marketing is getting a little out of hand.
"Non-M F32" is redundant, since the "F32M" has a unique designation of F82

(I can't help it -- I'm anal)
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:44 PM   #85
DrivenByE30
Colonel
DrivenByE30's Avatar
France
46
Rep
2,901
Posts

 
Drives: '12 F30 Lux 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: OC - SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by YolkyPalky View Post
I think what was said was that the M model naming will always reflect the underlying series it is based on, so if BMW decides to introduce a 4-series line-up of coupes and convertibles, and have the 3-series be sedan-only, it would logically make sense that the M coupe/convertible based on that series would be M4. This is a much broader decision for BMW than just about the M3 specifically, it is a larger decision about branding and differentiation of the series lineups.

Personally, I think an M coupe or convertible should be a somewhat different car, even if in badge name only, than a four-door sedan, so despite the history blah blah, I would be ok with different M models of coupe/convertible vs sedan.
yes, we both get that already...
you are saying what i am wrote (and was trying to convey) in my earlier posts, and what we already knew.
Well at least now we are on the same page.


My previous post was merely trying to explain to you why some people were up in arms because of the "logical" M4 reference, that goes against the iconic "M3" nameplate.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:45 PM   #86
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
65
Rep
4,084
Posts

 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
In 2011, the price gap between the M3 sedan and coupe was $3,000. It is possible for that to nearly double. I feel they will try to move the 4-series and M4 up market. With that in time the msrp will climb.

Look at the price difference between the 5 and 6 series. Although a extreme example, it does shed a little light on what they might try to do. I expect the models after the F30/F32 to have even more of price difference. All while be built on the exact same chassis.
+1

I made the exact same point in another thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I read a lot of people bickering about what the badge will say (and I've certainly added my voice to those calls in the past), but no one seems to mind the real, physical implication of all of this: the inevitable increase in price that the F32 and F82 will get over the F30 and F80. One of the primary motivating factors for BMW to split up the 3-series into two separate models is to insert a little market segmentation into the mix. It's not the introduction of the M Performance models that make the M4 less attainable -- it's the introduction of what is intended to be perceived as an upmarket model. After all, everyone knows that 4 is more than 3, right? The M Performance models simply become the consolation prize for those that could have made their finances work for a previous generation M car, but now have to settle for something they can afford given that the market segment they used to be in has moved up a notch or two.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #87
Red Bread
Brigadier General
United_States
45
Rep
4,358
Posts

 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
"Non-M F32" is redundant, since the "F32M" has a unique designation of F82

(I can't help it -- I'm anal)
Hehe, only fair. I forget that BMW is making it easy to tell all cars apart. Gone are the days where E46 covered wagons, coupes and sedans. Oh, and that ugly little goblin of a hatch back thing with four bug eyes.
Appreciate 0
      03-13-2012, 05:42 PM   #88
car_fan
Captain
car_fan's Avatar
35
Rep
830
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 F12 650cic / 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SoFla

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Nope, sorry. Sometimes newer is not better. Sometimes sticking to a heritage is better. I run into people all the time who see my car, and smile, comment on the car and talk about how it is their dream car, right after I tell them it was my dream for 15 years before I finally got this one. My buddy has had ///M5s for years and he never gets that same emotional response from people. All ///Ms are special, but the ///M3 has become iconic like the 911.....what do you think would happen if they came out with a 912?

The name "///M3" has a lot of meaning, stop trying to reinvent it. Sometimes, your marketing guys do not know best.

Cheers,
e46e92
Excellent - I was thinking the same thing
__________________
2012 650cic Space Gray/Vermillon Red/Blk.Top(retired)
2011 MINI CooperS BRGII/Lounge Green/Sport/Prem/Connect/Black Xenon/Black Conical Spokes/ACS springs/ACS exhaust/Alta Shorty/Continental Extreme DW
2012 M3 AW/FR NDH2/2MK/ZPP/ZCP/ZCW/752/6NR/OEM CF splitters/OEM CF Mirror caps
2012 X3 35i Titanium Silver/Black ZAP/ZPP/TECH/APPS/Breyton GTS/Continental Extreme DW
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m4, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m4, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m4, 3 series f32, 3 series f32 forum, 3 series forum, 4 series f32, 4 series f32 forum, 4-series forum, bmw 3 series forum, bmw 3-series f32, bmw 4 series forum, bmw 4-series f32, bmw f32, bmw f32 3-series, bmw f32 4 series, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 convertible, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m3 convertible, bmw f83 m4, bmw f83 m4 convertible, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f32 3-series, f32 3-series forum, f32 4-series, f32 4-series forum

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST