We Interview BMW M President, Dr. Nitschke, at 2012 Geneva Motorshow

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by aajami

The gap in MSRP between the A4 and A5 is around 17% for similar low-end models and up to 28% for similar high-end models, not far off from the 30% difference between the F10M and F12M. I think we're in for a rude surprise when the F32 and F82 pricing gets announced...

I am afraid so. Some of people that are downplaying the badge change, might be singing a different tune.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by jcnash

Damn right I wont consider it! Ive dreamed of owning an "M3 coupe" all my life even though there are better cars out there in my budgeted price bracket. So yes, I want the M3 partly because of the performance, but also because it is a part of automotive history. My plan is to keep the M3 as a hobby car long-term and change my second car every few years, so yeah the car I want to keep long term has to have some historic significance behind it and the M4 just wont. I frankly dont care about what other car guys or non-car guys think about my car...but "I" wouldnt think much of a BMW M4 compared to an M3 and that does matter.

To each their own, but that seems a little ridiculous to me.

Originally Posted by jcnash

Other than to up the price of the much-desired mid-size coupe M car (as Audi has successfully proven), I dont understand the need to differentiate. Any other reasons?

The coupes have already cost more than their sedan counterparts, but sure, this could lead to a larger price differential. That point aside, BMW has been hinting for quite a while that they would like all sedan, hatch, and touring models to be odd numbered, and all coupes, convertibles, roadsters, and 4-door coupes to be even numbered.

[jcnash]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

I am afraid so. Some of people that are downplaying the badge change, might be singing a different tune.

Exactly my thought as well. Is BMW goes through with this, it is purely a "bottom line" driven initiative, and they will make it count i.e...Im expecting atleast a 20% increase in price between the new M3 and M4.

[jcnash]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

The coupes have already cost more than their sedan counterparts, but sure, this could lead to a larger price differential. That point aside, BMW has been hinting for quite a while that they would like all sedan, hatch, and touring models to be odd numbered, and all coupes, convertibles, roadsters, and 4-door coupes to be even numbered.

Dont mean to belabor this...not much we can do about what BMW decides to do anyway, but you still havent given me a reason why you think it makes sense to re-badge the M3 coupe to an M4, like you said earlier.

Sure theyve been hinting at it for a while, sure other manufacturers have done it in the past, but other than potential increase in profits for BMW, there is no benefit for customers as far as I can tell.

Granted, the M4 will be slightly more powerful and refined than the new M3, which will be slightly more powerful and refined than the current M3. While these technological advances definitely warrant an increase in price from the current M3 base price, they definitely DONT warrant an increase in price from the new M3 to the M4 models, considering the fact that the base technology used in both cars will be the same.

The only factor that will drive a price difference between the M3 and the M4 will be the fact that the coupe version is usually much more in demand, and all BMW is trying to do here is to capitalize on that increase in demand by significantly increasing M4 pricing compared to the M3.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Yes, it does make sense that they are internal references, but I still look at them as the "true" model designations in Porsche's case when comparing them to other production models. For example, there was the 924, 928, 944, 959, and 968 that all used these designations as their model names. The 994 replaced the 924, and the 968 replaced the 944, but the newer models did not keep the "924" name.

That's why I believe a designation like "997" is the true model name, but they kept the "911" name for historical and marketing purposes.

Great point, the 944 is one that I think EVERYONE recognizes as being the term referenced for that model, not the 911. I never heard anyone say they had a 911 to describe their 944.

Cheers,
e46e92

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by jcnash

Dont mean to belabor this...not much we can do about what BMW decides to do anyway, but you still havent given me a reason why you think it makes sense to re-badge the M3 coupe to an M4, like you said earlier.

Sure theyve been hinting at it for a while, sure other manufacturers have done it in the past, but other than potential increase in profits for BMW, there is no benefit for customers as far as I can tell.

Granted, the M4 will be slightly more powerful and refined than the new M3, which will be slightly more powerful and refined than the current M3. While these technological advances definitely warrant an increase in price from the current M3 base price, they definitely DONT warrant an increase in price from the new M3 to the M4 models, considering the fact that the base technology used in both cars will be the same.

The only factor that will drive a price difference between the M3 and the M4 will be the fact that the coupe version is usually much more in demand, and all BMW is trying to do here is to capitalize on that increase in demand by significantly increasing M4 pricing compared to the M3.

Look at the M5/M6 ... simply the same technic base but 20-25% increased price ... I am sure BMW would do the same with the M3/M4.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

Look at the M5/M6 ... simply the same technic base but 20-25% increased price ... I am sure BMW would do the same with the M3/M4.

30% delta between the two in some markets.

COGs have no impact on price when it comes to market segmentation.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by jcnash

Dont mean to belabor this...not much we can do about what BMW decides to do anyway, but you still havent given me a reason why you think it makes sense to re-badge the M3 coupe to an M4, like you said earlier.

Ignoring the potential for price increases, the reasoning seemed to be that there would be a simplification in the model designations even though it involved introducing new model numbers. With the new scheme, it would be easy to tell customers that even numbered models designated 2-door coupes/hatches/roadsters/convertibles, while odd numbered models designated the 4-door variants. This just seemed logical to me. Of course, what throws this off is the introduction of 4-door gran coupes that are also even numbered.

I also liked the logical model names of the older standard series cars where the first number stood for the series, and the second two numbers stood for the actual engine displacement. After the model names began to no longer represent the engine displacement accurately, I decided I really don't care what the car is called as long as it performs and is well executed.

[SCOTT26]

The Ultimate Selling point for the Gran Coupe 6er is although it is a four door , in relation to height between the 3er , 5er and 7er it is the lowest (in height) BMW four dr Sedan. This is why the term Gran Coupe fits. Because the low roofline and sleek sporting sloping roof embodies the feeling of a Coupe compared to a regular sedan.

The 6er Gran Coupe , however will be (in relation to height) the lowest BMW Sedan. However the 4er Gran Coupe when it arrives will be slightly lower than the 6er Gran Coupe and again follows the same formula.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The Ultimate Selling point for the Gran Coupe 6er is although it is a four door , in relation to height between the 3er , 5er and 7er it is the lowest (in height) BMW four dr Sedan. This is why the term Gran Coupe fits. Because the low roofline and sleek sporting sloping roof embodies the feeling of a Coupe compared to a regular sedan.

The 6er Gran Coupe , however will be (in relation to height) the lowest BMW Sedan. However the 4er Gran Coupe when it arrives will be slightly lower than the 6er Gran Coupe and again follows the same formula.

Of all the cars in the upcoming BMW portfolio, the one I'm most interested in is the F85. Too bad we have to wait for the F32, F35, and F82 to be revealed first before we get a look at the M4 GC.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by aajami

Of all the cars in the upcoming BMW portfolio, the one I'm most interested in is the F85. Too bad we have to wait for the F32, F35, and F82 to be revealed first before we get a look at the M4 GC.

The same about me. I like coupés, but I prefere them with four doors, they are more practical, you don't need to get out of the car to let he rear passengers get in/out. For a proper performance/sportscar I'd look at a 2 seater.

[as7920]

Well teh M4GC could be the perfect compromise for me, sportiness and features of the M4 but the convenience of the M3 with 4 doors.

But I can guarantee it would blow my budget big time!

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by jcnash

Damn right I wont consider it! Ive dreamed of owning an "M3 coupe" all my life even though there are better cars out there in my budgeted price bracket. So yes, I want the M3 partly because of the performance, but also because it is a part of automotive history. My plan is to keep the M3 as a hobby car long-term and change my second car every few years, so yeah the car I want to keep long term has to have some historic significance behind it and the M4 just wont. I frankly dont care about what other car guys or non-car guys think about my car...but "I" wouldnt think much of a BMW M4 compared to an M3 and that does matter.

I couldn´t hear this M3 sedan bashing any more ... accept that the new M Coupe based on the F82 would be named M4. The moniker "M4" doesn´t make the car less sportier as it is.

There is nothing wrong if the F80 M3 sedan is the only M3 model ... and its only "Back to the roots" as the very frist M3 based on the E30 was also quoted by BMW as "2-door-sedan" and never as coupe!
The first M3-Coupe was the E36 Coupe but there was also an M3-Sedan in the E36 Range. Only with the E46 there was no M3-Sedan.

Its simple BS to define the iconic "M3" only on his badge ... that fanboy "bla-bla" for those who never could afford an new M3 and put M3 badges on their regular e36/46/92 coupes ... the iconic "M3" is only defined on performence and on nothing else ... if the car has an outstanding performence on track and on street than it is worth to be named as "M3". And in the currend generation the E90 M3 is as fast as (if not a very little bit faster as!) the E92 M3 ... so the E90 M3 is 110% worth to wear the M3 Badge. This is not only my opinion ... no, thats the only truth and there could the M3=Coupe Fanboy Fraction saying what they want. If in the E9x M3 range there is an car that probably (not my opinion!) is not really worth to wear the M3 Badge than its the E93 convertible because it lacks the performence of the two others - because of its weight, but nobody of the fanboy would says this, because the convertible is an real good fanboy poser.

So if the new M3 is the F80 sedan and the F82 coupe is upgraded to the Moniker M4 nothing is going wrong ... the myth M3 lives on in an car that is more than 110% worth to wear this Badge as only model, because this would have an such outstanding performence (so much better than all old M3s!) that it would be the "best M3 ever". And all who like the Coupe more, could buy the same car as M4.

Greets Uli_HH

[jcnash]

Originally Posted by Uli_HH

I couldn´t hear this M3 sedan bashing any more ... accept that the new M Coupe based on the F82 would be named M4. The moniker "M4" doesn´t make the car less sportier as it is.

There is nothing wrong if the F80 M3 sedan is the only M3 model ... and its only "Back to the roots" as the very frist M3 based on the E30 was also quoted by BMW as "2-door-sedan" and never as coupe!
The first M3-Coupe was the E36 Coupe but there was also an M3-Sedan in the E36 Range. Only with the E46 there was no M3-Sedan.

Its simple BS to define the iconic "M3" only on his badge ... that fanboy "bla-bla" for those who never could afford an new M3 and put M3 badges on their regular e36/46/92 coupes ... the iconic "M3" is only defined on performence and on nothing else ... if the car has an outstanding performence on track and on street than it is worth to be named as "M3". And in the currend generation the E90 M3 is as fast as (if not a very little bit faster as!) the E92 M3 ... so the E90 M3 is 110% worth to wear the M3 Badge. This is not only my opinion ... no, thats the only truth and there could the M3=Coupe Fanboy Fraction saying what they want. If in the E9x M3 range there is an car that probably (not my opinion!) is not really worth to wear the M3 Badge than its the E93 convertible because it lacks the performence of the two others - because of its weight, but nobody of the fanboy would says this, because the convertible is an real good fanboy poser.

So if the new M3 is the F80 sedan and the F82 coupe is upgraded to the Moniker M4 nothing is going wrong ... the myth M3 lives on in an car that is more than 110% worth to wear this Badge as only model, because this would have an such outstanding performence (so much better than all old M3s!) that it would be the "best M3 ever". And all who like the Coupe more, could buy the same car as M4.

Greets Uli_HH

Watcha talkin about bro?

Im not hating on the M3 sedan...never said it didnt deserve the M3 badge.

I just prefer the coupe and dont like the fact that I cant buy an "M3 coupe" starting 2014.

[jcnash]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

I also liked the logical model names of the older standard series cars where the first number stood for the series, and the second two numbers stood for the actual engine displacement. After the model names began to no longer represent the engine displacement accurately, I decided I really don't care what the car is called as long as it performs and is well executed.

Touche.

[NutsaboutM3]

Originally Posted by Matei

They first say that the M3 is an icon an after that they say that the M3 Coupe will be renamed to M4 because is the M variant of the 4 series.
I hope that this would not be the case and someone from bmw is reading all these forums.

+1