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      04-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #1
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With all these car companyís releasing cars pushing well over 480hp i believe if the M3/M4 comes with 450hp only itís going to disappoint a lot of people, especially me.

Ford GT500 is already pushing 660hp
ZL1 580hp
C63 481hp

Unless they drop the weight of this car, i don't see how they are going to keep up with the competition
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      04-27-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
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I don't think the M3 really competes with the GT500 or the ZL1. Balance is what sells the M3 not power.
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      04-27-2012, 10:03 PM   #3
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The word on the side streets is that the new M3 will weight about 150-200 lbs less than our current cars, potentially. You gotta remember, those three cars you listed are absolute pigs. While the M3 can't keep up with the ZL1 or GT500 in a straight line, or around the track, it walks all over the C63... So if the new car has similar power to the AMG, and our cars already make it look sloppy in the corners, just imagine how much better it would be then.

The GT500 and ZL1 are cool cars, but they're not cars you can live with every day. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool. No one above 3 feet tall can live in a Camaro every day.
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      04-27-2012, 10:06 PM   #4
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The new M3 is sure to be sick no matter what they drop..the pressure is on BMW as many car makers are knocking on BMW's door
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      04-27-2012, 10:10 PM   #5
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I never thought I would say this but I'm not convinced that a 500+ hp car would be more fun to me. I enjoyed the hell out of the '09 C63 I had but that car could light up the back tires so easily. So, the computer has to retard that power so you don't put yourself into a ditch. The higher horsepower is great for better 0-150 mph times but most of us don't do that.

Ultimately I agree with Nine that I'm looking for balance. I wouldn't mind some more low end torque but I am really into an overall fun to drive and superbly handling car. If the next M3 does 0-60 in 4 seconds and the 1/4 in 12.2-12.4 seconds then that is plenty of fun for me so long as it also handles really well.

If the next C AMG is fun as well I will give that strong consideration as well. But I'm no longer after pure crazed power like I would have been at a much younger age. A 662 hp Mustang doesn't entice me.

Last edited by gblansten; 04-28-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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      04-27-2012, 10:14 PM   #6
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I believe that this is the type of thread that could get posted in multiple forums.
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      04-27-2012, 10:17 PM   #7
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If they lower weight as thought to be, and have turbos.. The new M "should" be awesome.

That said, i'll have a c63, i won't be worrying about turbo issues with BMW.
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      04-27-2012, 10:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IFX View Post
If they lower weight as thought to be, and have turbos.. The new M "should" be awesome.

That said, i'll have a c63, i won't be worrying about turbo issues with BMW.
Pretty sure that the next-gen C63 is going to be turbo as well; for better or for worse, I think they're going to become standard in performance cars and then in normal cars and they'll stay around until we move to performance hybrids, full electric, or even (gasp!) diesel in the US.
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      04-27-2012, 10:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2
The word on the side streets is that the new M3 will weight about 150-200 lbs less than our current cars, potentially. You gotta remember, those three cars you listed are absolute pigs. While the M3 can't keep up with the ZL1 or GT500 in a straight line, or around the track, it walks all over the C63... So if the new car has similar power to the AMG, and our cars already make it look sloppy in the corners, just imagine how much better it would be then.

The GT500 and ZL1 are cool cars, but they're not cars you can live with every day. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a fool. No one above 3 feet tall can live in a Camaro every day.
You obviously have never driven or tracked a C63 so don't refute my point because it's quite evident by your remark...

On a side note, I would never cross shop an M3 versus a GT500 or ZL1

Last edited by Ghetto2315; 04-27-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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      04-27-2012, 10:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten
I never thought I would say this but I'm not convinced that a 500+ hp car would be more fun to me. I enjoyed the hell out of the '09 C63 I had but that car could light up the back tires so easily. So, the computer has to retard that power so you don't put yourself into a ditch. The higher horsepower is great for better 0-150 mph times but most of us don't do that.

Ultimately I agree with Nine that I'm looking for balance. I wouldn't mine some more low end torque but I am really into an overall fun to drive and superbly handling car. If the next M3 does 0-60 in 4 seconds and the 1/4 in 12.2-12.4 seconds then that is plenty of fun for me so long as it also handles really well.

If the next C AMG is fun as well I will give that strong consideration as well. But I'm no longer after pure crazed power like I would have been at a much younger age. A 662 hp Mustang doesn't entice me.
I suggest you drive a supercharged M3.... You will eat your words!
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      04-27-2012, 10:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan
Quote:
Originally Posted by IFX View Post
If they lower weight as thought to be, and have turbos.. The new M "should" be awesome.

That said, i'll have a c63, i won't be worrying about turbo issues with BMW.
Pretty sure that the next-gen C63 is going to be turbo as well; for better or for worse, I think they're going to become standard in performance cars and then in normal cars and they'll stay around until we move to performance hybrids, full electric, or even (gasp!) diesel in the US.
This is correct. Next gen C63 will be a 5.5L twin-turbo that is shared in the E63, S63, SL63, CLS63, CL63, G63, eh you get the point. Just as our legendary 4.0L V8 will be phased out, so will Mercedes-Benz's equally impressive 6.2L V8.

Last edited by Ghetto2315; 04-27-2012 at 10:45 PM.
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      04-27-2012, 10:42 PM   #12
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Since when does HP end the conversation? and how are you comparing that nonesense to an M3? you're talking about the Champ. and it's more than pressing your foot down and making the car go.

man.
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      04-27-2012, 10:44 PM   #13
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This thread needs to be moved to "M3 vs...
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      04-27-2012, 10:59 PM   #14
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I might go a little off topic but I can't stand when people on this forum that have no experience in driving or tracking there cars say the c63 can't beat an m3 on the track. Just because a professional recommended an m3 as a better track car doesn't mean everyone with a m3 on this forum can beat an c63 owner on the track. It takes skills to do that. Back to topic also 450 is good enough tuning cars with turbos is big now these new cars get an extra 50 horse power with just a tune which is insane I think the cls63 was high 600 with just an tune amazing
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      04-27-2012, 11:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by AbuArije5 View Post
I might go a little off topic but I can't stand when people on this forum that have no experience in driving or tracking there cars say the c63 can't beat an m3 on the track. Just because a professional recommended an m3 as a better track car doesn't mean everyone with a m3 on this forum can beat an c63 owner on the track. It takes skills to do that.
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      04-27-2012, 11:30 PM   #16
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I would LOVE a 450 HP M3, given that it would be lighter and keep the balance as others stated. However, I prefer the high revving NA V8.
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      04-27-2012, 11:40 PM   #17
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IMO the M3 is a home run right now. Cept its right down the right field line at 300 feet and just barely falls over the fence. Give it another 100 hp or so and the otherwise exact same car is outta the park.
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      04-27-2012, 11:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabman View Post
IMO the M3 is a home run right now. Cept its right down the right field line at 300 feet and just barely falls over the fence. Give it another 100 hp or so and the otherwise exact same car is outta the park.
there are ways to get that done. mods await you. for me, i can't wait to drive my fresh out of the box stock M3. only a month away. and i have driven those things hard, they are magic on the track. so even if you can't access that every day, to know it's there, is awesome. and you can't say that about many cars. many many cars.

and oh yeah heated leather seats, great idrive, and that attention to detail. just for the DD.
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      04-28-2012, 12:54 AM   #19
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It's called torque. The new m3 will have 400+ if its force fed. Makes the 'only' 450hp rather non consequential.
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      04-28-2012, 01:23 AM   #20
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If what I've read about the F10 M5's engine is accurate, then the M3's should be equally impressive, in that it offers great torque down low (gearing not factored in), but pulls hard all the way to redline as it makes peak power near the top, which is unlike most other FI engines. Sort of like the engine performance equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.

That said, I absolutely love the S65, and would be more than happy if that engine just carried through onto a new, lighter chassis.
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      04-28-2012, 04:27 AM   #21
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current gen M3 has always developed similar horsepower to the last gen M5, so using the same logic my best guess is the new M3 should have an output between 480~500, which is easy with a tri-turbo.
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      04-28-2012, 04:29 AM   #22
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The Mustang, Camaros, and SRT cars were never the M3's competition. These are muscle cars. Until very recently however, they all lacked serious muscle car power. It hasn't been since the late 1960's that America has put this kind of power out on the streets. The M3 never existed at that time.

What is happening now, is a completely new phenomenon to the current generation of car enthusiasts. For years the top straight line performers were the Japanese in the 1990's then the Europeans from 2000 onwards. Now the US is making big power cars for a much lower cost, which is the basic muscle car formula. The current generation of car enthusiasts, myself included, hasn't seen this in their driving lifetimes, however, so it's difficult to know what to make of it .

One thing is for certain in my mind however. When you start getting over 450-500 lb-ft or torque, all wheel drive makes an enormous difference in the usability of the power. What you will sacrifice is some steering feel and sharpness. Of course, stability technology is improving also, but it is not pefected yet. You can still feel those mechanisms kicking in and robbing you of power. When the technology is perfected, the stability functions will be seemless and imperceptible, but we are not there yet.
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Last edited by LarThaL; 04-28-2012 at 04:41 AM.
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