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View Poll Results: Which engine would you choose
Engine 1 - S65Tü 11 33.33%
Engine 2 - S55 12 36.36%
Engine 3 - S66 12 36.36%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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      07-04-2012, 06:40 AM   #1
Uli_HH
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Question about the F80M3 / F82M4 engine !!!

Provided BMW would let us choose the engine and offered you 3 Alternatives
  • A proved good and unique but "old" slightly modified engine with slightly less horsepower and slightly higher consumption ... as an example S65(Tü?) 4.0ltr.V8 with 420-440HP. 400-430Nm, 9.9 ltr/100km, Redline 8.300rpm
  • A modified AG-engine with more horsepower and low fuel consumption ... as an example S55 3.2ltr.I6 TriTurbo with 450-480HP, 500-550Nm, 8.7 ltr/100km, Redline 7.000rpm
  • A totally new and unique, but tradition breaking engine even with more horsepower and low fuel consumption ... as an example S66 3.3ltr.V6 BiTurbo with 450-480HP, 500-550Nm, 8.7 ltr/100km, Redline 7.500rpm

Last edited by Uli_HH; 07-09-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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      07-04-2012, 07:20 AM   #2
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1. S66
2. S65
3. S55
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      07-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #3
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1. S55 (if redline is greater than 7.5k)
2. S65tu


10. "S66"
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      07-05-2012, 07:02 PM   #4
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Hopefully its like the S54 just rawness which was lost throughout the years. Amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque out of 3.2L with a 7900 redline. That was engineering at its best
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      07-06-2012, 03:37 AM   #5
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Fuel consumption is totally irrelevant, and to a certain extent I'm not even worried about power output. The only things I really care about in my motors is the way they deliver power (I like a relatively flat torque band with peak power at or near redline, but I don't like engines that are overly peaky. I loved the powerband of the E9x M3 but would have liked it even better if it had 25 more lb/ft of torque from like 5-7k) and the way the engine sounds, not just at wide open throttle but at all times. For these reasons, I would prefer a new version of the V8 or even an updated straight six over any turbo alternatives but I'm not entirely against turbos, I definitely have no problem with the motor in my car.
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      07-06-2012, 04:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Fuel consumption is totally irrelevant
No it's not. Maybe it is to you and the rest of the U$A, but elsewhere in the world people pay double or triple the price of your gas, and depending on the country also yearly taxes based on the fuel economy [or polution] of the car.
Less fuel economy [more polution] = more expensive at the pump + (a lot) more expensive on your tax bill.
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      07-06-2012, 01:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
No it's not. Maybe it is to you and the rest of the U$A, but elsewhere in the world people pay double or triple the price of your gas, and depending on the country also yearly taxes based on the fuel economy [or polution] of the car.
Less fuel economy [more polution] = more expensive at the pump + (a lot) more expensive on your tax bill.
I was talking about myself of course, and only when it comes to a sporty car like the M3. I should have been more clear.
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      07-07-2012, 09:29 PM   #8
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Interesting poll but I did not vote. Redlines are a key ingredient. I like that you mention consumption as well. It may not be folks deciding factor but it is still important.
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      07-07-2012, 11:13 PM   #9
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I would love to see an "S65B44Tu", aka a revised version of the GTS/CRT engine with stronger internals for an even higher redline and power output, or an "S65B48", aka a stroked version of the S65B44 at the current redline but higher power output. Bonus points if either of those get a flatplane crankshaft.

None of that is going to happen, unfortunately.
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      07-08-2012, 09:23 AM   #10
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inline 6 tri-turbo.. give me torque and fuel economy..
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      07-08-2012, 10:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I would love to see an "S65B44Tu", aka a revised version of the GTS/CRT engine with stronger internals for an even higher redline and power output, or an "S65B48", aka a stroked version of the S65B44 at the current redline but higher power output. Bonus points if either of those get a flatplane crankshaft.

None of that is going to happen, unfortunately.
I took this 3 engine variants in the election, which represent the most probable to that concept.

If there ever again an revised (Tü) of the S65 could be, then it would remain with the capacity to 100% for 4.0ltr, if only to reduce the consumption.

About the by swamp2 quoted Redline issue ... I'm also 100% believe, that if any one of both turbos could spin up to 7500rpm, it would then be the V6, because in the case of the I6 even the technical preconditions of the long crankshaft speaks against an higher redline.

Greets Uli_HH
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      07-08-2012, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
inline 6 tri-turbo.. give me torque and fuel economy..
Odd, two of the least important things for an M engine. From my perspective:

Power
Shape of power and torque curves
Redline

All come well above torque and fuel efficiency.

Are we interested in the same car?
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      07-09-2012, 01:05 PM   #13
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You missed an important one:

S63B33 TT V8 with an 8000 RPM redline. The shorter stroke vs. the existing S63B44 allows for the higher peak RPM. Though higher RPM may also preclude the use of Valvetronic. Either way, this engine would, in my opinion, be a better fit within BMW's current product strategies than either an S65Tu or any V6.

Of course, this also does nothing to address engine weight - something BMW will no doubt manage carefully with the new I6.
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      07-09-2012, 02:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
You missed an important one:

S63B33 TT V8 with an 8000 RPM redline. The shorter stroke vs. the existing S63B44 allows for the higher peak RPM. Though higher RPM may also preclude the use of Valvetronic. Either way, this engine would, in my opinion, be a better fit within BMW's current product strategies than either an S65Tu or any V6.
Nice idea ... very nice indeed. Best solution for the rpm/Redline issue ... an high reving Turbo engine = best turbo solution for the M3/M4 but costly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Of course, this also does nothing to address engine weight - something BMW will no doubt manage carefully with the new I6.
I don´t think that an I6 based on the N55, re-inforced, with an bigger turbosystem/more turbo and the needed pipes could be lighter then an N54 ever a little bit heavier ... I think it would would weight somewhat between 195 and 200kg
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      07-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
I don´t think that an I6 based on the N55, re-inforced, with an bigger turbosystem/more turbo and the needed pipes could be lighter then an N54 ever a little bit heavier ... I think it would would weight somewhat between 195 and 200kg
Possible, but remember that the N54 weighs less than the S65. So even if the new "S55" is heavier than an N54, I still think that they will come in at less weight than the S65. And I think they will want to use this as a selling point in marketing literature (just as they did for the S65 vs. the S52).

So as far as weights go:

S54 > S65 > "S55"

IMHO.
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Last edited by mkoesel; 07-09-2012 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Duh, S54, not S52.
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      07-09-2012, 02:56 PM   #16
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S54 : 217 kg
S65 : 202 kg
N54 : 195 kg
N55 : 191 kg
N52 : 161 kg



No way S55 will weight less than S65. But to compensate F80 will be lighter than E90.
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      07-09-2012, 03:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
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No way S55 will weight less than S65.
"We will surprise you with this car."
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      07-09-2012, 03:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
"We will surprise you with this car."

That F80 is 150 kg lighter than E90 is already one the greatest surprises one can get. I just hope the the M3/M4 F8X won't get the same fate as the 1 Series M Coupé ; good car but ruined because of bad powertrain.
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      07-09-2012, 06:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
That F80 is 150 kg lighter than E90...
I recall some great ambiguity in the numbers on this point. Are there official numbers that show this consistently in an apples to apples comparison? Thanks!
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      07-10-2012, 03:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I recall some great ambiguity in the numbers on this point. Are there official numbers that show this consistently in an apples to apples comparison? Thanks!
Well I used the rumored numbers. Mine are the M3 E90 is 100 kg lighter than the M3 F80, 50 kg lighter than 335i F30.
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      07-10-2012, 02:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Well I used the rumored numbers. Mine are the M3 E90 is 100 kg lighter than the M3 F80, 50 kg lighter than 335i F30.
you are saying the next m3 will be 100 kg heavier than current one?
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      07-10-2012, 03:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
you are saying the next m3 will be 100 kg heavier than current one?


Typo : F80 100kg lighter than E90M, F80 50 kg lighter than F30.
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