The $80,000 BMW M3

[ATS]

Originally Posted by aus

RS mideast are always considerable more than the comparable /M model.

Where can I get a 997 GT3 for $85,000???
A basic 991 with a few options is a $100,000 car now. A 991S is about $120,00.

.

Search result in autotrader came up with 15 cars, here are the links to some of them:

2008 997 GT3, 21K miles, $86K

2008 997 GT3, 18K miles, $85K

2007 997 GT3, 15K miles $83K

2007 997 GT3, 9K miles, $83K

2007 997 GT3, 9K miles, $79K

2007 997 GT3, 10K miles, $78K

2007 997 GT3, 28K miles, $71K

[aus]

Originally Posted by ATS

Search result in autotrader came up with 15 cars, here are the links to some of them:

2008 997 GT3, 21K miles, $86K

2008 997 GT3, 18K miles, $85K

2007 997 GT3, 15K miles $83K

2007 997 GT3, 9K miles, $83K

2007 997 GT3, 9K miles, $79K

2007 997 GT3, 10K miles, $78K

2007 997 GT3, 28K miles, $71K

I'm not talking about a used car!! Besides, buying a used GT3 is a crap shoot in a sence because many are track cars, while only a small handful of M3's will ever get driven hard- regardless of how hard their owners think they're driving.

Having said that, I'm really surprised the AMG Black's drop that much.
.

[ATS]

Originally Posted by aus

I'm not talking about a used car!! Besides, buying a used GT3 is a crap shoot in a sence because many are track cars, while only a small handful of M3's will ever get driven hard- regardless of how hard their owners think they're driving.

Having said that, I'm really surprised the AMG Black's drop that much.
.

Well, I was referring to used cars

I rather have a slightly used, thoroughly inspected 997 GT3 than a new $80K+ BMW 3 series. And the AMG Black runs a very close second.

[heart_doctor]

My 2011 E92 M3 was about $70,000 pretty loaded also. I think for the price/performance its a great deal. A new base GTR is $90,000 the black edition is $100,000. A stripped down Porsche 911 will be $90,000 at base and if you go with the S or 4s and add a few options you are well into the $100,000 range.

Even used ones retain their value and are not that much cheaper. I think the M3 gives you the best bang for your buck. Its a great daily driver, a great performing car and fun to drive for the price.

You can load up the current M3 with every single option and not break $80,000. BMW will keep the price very similar to what it is now. I would except the base stripped version of the F80/F82 to be close to the current model.

[jamze132]

If it's $80, I'll happily keep driving my E92.

But being in the military stationed in Germany, I'll have a hard decision to make when the new one comes out as I'll be able to still save over $10 from the US market. BMW military sales is an absolute fabulous program!

[PLAY_HRD]

As far as $80K+ for an F model M3... It better be UBER SWEET!!!, because a new 335i with M-Package and Loaded out is only $55K.

I'm sure many of you watch Top Gear, remember when they reviewed the new M5? While they said it was the best car on the planet, all of them said it was hard to justify to extra $$$$$ because the 5 Series was so good. Same theory here. And for the record I've owned an 88' 320is while in Italy, 01' M3, and 08' M3(which I bought new). So I LOVE my M cars... but BMW M cars are quickly losing ground to the pack and $80K+ is hard to swallow.

One more side note; Someone mentioned that most cars can now be equipped with an array to tech goodies standard. My GTI which cost $26K has touch screen nav, bluetooth, heated seats, iPhone hook-up, active steering head lights, key fob, and more. Just another reason the new M3 better bring it in the performance category or else it will get killed by the critics.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by m630

Economies of scale is the name of the game. Just basic economics.

But, if U haven't heard, our borders are WIDE open, so u are more than welcome to come down and enjoy the madness U

Definitely is a case of economies of scale!

I realize the borders are wide open, however, once you pay the duties (an M3 is not made within the countries signatory to NAFTA) lose your free maintenance, get the cluster changed to satisfy BMW Canada for warranty, etc. most if not all of the savings is gone.

[richardg]

Originally Posted by PLAYHRD

As far as $80K+ for an F model M3... It better be UBER SWEET!!!, because a new 335i with M-Package and Loaded out is only $55K.

I'm sure many of you watch Top Gear, remember when they reviewed the new M5? While they said it was the best car on the planet, all of them said it was hard to justify to extra $$$$$ because the 5 Series was so good. Same theory here. And for the record I've owned an 88' 320is while in Italy, 01' M3, and 08' M3(which I bought new). So I LOVE my M cars... but BMW M cars are quickly losing ground to the pack and $80K+ is hard to swallow.

One more side note; Someone mentioned that most cars can now be equipped with an array to tech goodies standard. My GTI which cost $26K has touch screen nav, bluetooth, heated seats, iPhone hook-up, active steering head lights, key fob, and more. Just another reason the new M3 better bring it in the performance category or else it will get killed by the critics.

I completely agree. Honestly I really think this car should come with way more standard equipment. With all the new tech that is goign to be in the car I think "tech package" should just be a part of the car. I do expect some interesting competition though both performance and price wise. The m3 used to completely slaughter everything. Now you have cars that are genuinely great and most of them offer much more standard stuff.

[DoD74]

Originally Posted by Skullbussa

I typed out a long response to Uli HH in another thread and decided it was off-topic for that thread and wanted to start it, instead, in here.

Current suggestions are that if the F80/F82 M cars follow suit of their M5 big brother, that we could be looking at $80k USD for a healthy-optioned M3.

This is dangerous for BMW in the American market.

$80k for a car that will be, to many eyes, virtually indistinguishable from its $30k+ cheaper cousin (328) is not a car that will be very marketable in the US, a country where many people who choose to spend $80,000 will want every other person to know just how much money they spent on a car.

Cost-effeciencies gained by using a slightly modified version of the N55 powerplant must be handed down to the consumer. Further, charging outrageous sums for "luxuries" such as iPod integration and Bluetooth, technologies that are now common on virtually every new inexpensive car sold, must be stopped. ( I travel very often for work and every single Ford, Hyundai, and Chrysler I have driven recently have superior iPod/iPhone integration to a E9x 3-series).

Furthermore, BMW cannot continue to rely upon heavily-subsidized lease rates to make BMWs affordable to people who are in the "99%". This is creating negative long-term effects on the brand image as there is little pride of ownership, a sense of trepidation in owning these vehicles beyond their warranty and maintenance window (which is only encouraged at the dealership by sales, unfortunately). Instead, to make these cars more affordable, BMW should focus on new methods to balance the luxury and sportiness of these cars. The market DEMANDS that BMW ups its performance of the F80/82 cars but does it also demand that additional luxuries (beyond premium fit/finish/paint/leather, etc) continue to be piled-on? I'm doubtful.

BMW simply cannot continue to try to match Cadillac/Mercedes/Lexus luxury as well as chase base 911 Carerra performance. To do so demands a car that is rocketing in cost. $80,000 is NUTS. For the enthusiast, like most of us, it is a very, very hard decision to make to buy a new F80/F82 over a very gently used 911 Turbo, GT-R, and a wide variety of other sub-Exotics that offer more compelling performance.

I completely agree. I love the M3 but it is simply getting too expensive. My last purchase was a 335i Coupe with MPackage and a Dinan tune because I couldn't justify spending $70k on what is at heart a 3 Series. the 335 tuned is a wonderfully responsive car, and was still $15-$20k under the cost of a fully equipped M3. As fantastic of a machine as it it, it's getting harder and haerder to argue the numbers...

[DoD74]

Originally Posted by richardg

I completely agree. Honestly I really think this car should come with way more standard equipment. With all the new tech that is goign to be in the car I think "tech package" should just be a part of the car. I do expect some interesting competition though both performance and price wise. The m3 used to completely slaughter everything. Now you have cars that are genuinely great and most of them offer much more standard stuff.

Exactly! I love BMW but it is a bit absurd that on a car of that class you still have to add the Premium Package. At that price point, leather, power seats and nav, etc should be standard. $70-80k is loaded 550 or 7 Series money, and you don't have to add those features to those models

[jkay]

Originally Posted by dcg71

lol... you'll get no sympathy from the rest of the world. Try $180K.

U think thats bad? We pay around $233k, and folks in Singapore pay even more

[W12x]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

$180K? Really?

A loaded M3 after all the taxes will cost $200K USD in China, and probably $400K USD in Singapore and Egypt. (An I4 Toyota Camry in Singapore cost almost as much as a loaded BMW X5 here in the US)

A lot of nations across the global impose a large amount of taxes for cars over a certain displacement, that's why you see BMWs with 4 cylinder engines very often in Europe and Asia.

[M3Guy]

The new 1/2 series M's are taking the place of the M3's anyways as the M3 is becoming a different type of car now. The price will be less for these and will probably appeal more to us anyways. The only thing is people love the M3 name (as do I) but what will we do when the coupe is no longer a M3 but instead a M4? Will we be ok switching names then and if so then the 1/2 M should fit the bill. Just my opinion though.

[eMvy]

What’s with the negative attitude towards leasing, in particular when insinuating that it’s a means of acquiring an otherwise obtainable vehicle?

If you want to own something perpetually [aside from the payment of course] great, but don’t lump everyone else into your ideologies.

[pkim1079]

i'm looking forward to the M2. . i had a crazy dream that i was tracking a 1M coupe last night. strange.....

[richardg]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

i'm looking forward to the M2. . i had a crazy dream that i was tracking a 1M coupe last night. strange.....

I am going to try and hold off and check out what the M2 might look like. I just wouldn't want a 4cyl. Nothing wrong with it, just not my style. That and I need it to look way better than the F20

[pkim1079]

Originally Posted by richardg

I am going to try and hold off and check out what the M2 might look like. I just wouldn't want a 4cyl. Nothing wrong with it, just not my style. That and I need it to look way better than the F20

yes it CANNOT look like that little hatchback.....not really looking for a 4banger (again and again and again) but pretty sure that //M would make it pretty remarkable no question about that. but still doubt what a 4banger could do up top.

[dcg71]

Originally Posted by jkay

U think thats bad? We pay around $233k, and folks in Singapore pay even more

Where do you get $233k from? M3s start at around GBP 55k based on BMW UK's website (~ USD 85k).

[jwickers]

Originally Posted by dcg71

Where do you get $233k from? M3s start at around GBP 55k based on BMW UK's website (~ USD 85k).

Seems excessive for the UK.

[laomiyc]

Looking forward to ...

[M Pulse]

Originally Posted by DoD74

...My last purchase was a 335i Coupe with MPackage and a Dinan tune because I couldn't justify spending $70k on what is at heart a 3 Series...

I have to disagree, I believe the M3 only shares about 40% with the regular 3 series... everything else was exclusively designed for the M badge. The heart & sole of the M3 is completely different than the regular 3 series badge.

[E46M54325Ci]

You're definitely right that they wont be able to continue to rely on subsidized lease rates. the rates have already gone and stayed down, even though the car market has come roaring back. It used to be you could lease a 3 for 300 a month, then it was $400, now you're lucky to get one for $500 a month. that's all good and fine but at some point BMW will kill the market. they've already had to bring in the 1 series and now the X1 is here too. At some point though the general market will push back. We're not talking about the 1% of car owners that hangs out on these boards, but those out there in what's an N20 land are going to push back.

Speaking of the N20, I think, as great as that engine is, Americans especially will at some point say wait, $50,000 for a 4 cylinder 3 series? $65,000 for a 5 series with a 4 banger, WTF? I think the N20 is awesome and many of the rest of you on here do too. But to the general public $50-60k for a 4 cylinder is just cause for WTF?

As I said, the solution BMW is going for is more models at the bottom of the line. That's cool, I'd love a super lightweight 120i or 120d, or 2 series for the coupe. But those will inevitably just kill the 3 series sales as the brand whores scoop them up. They will also, like the F30 and it's lines, be catered massively to the brand whores and focus group clowns. Then that car will grow up (and big) and will need to be replaced. But by then BMW will have run out of numbers? What will follow? 025i, -128i, any takers?

I think what we'd all like to see is a reversion back to BMW's nonchalant, we'll make what we make and you'll buy it and like it or you'll STFU attitude of old. But, as Mercedes found out in the late 80s and early 90s, once you get so good that everyone has to have you and will pay through the nose for you, you find a way to relax on your own standards a bit, all for $$$. It's not a car company thing. It's a human thing. It happens to politicians. It happens to celebrities. It happens to business executives. It's happening right now at BMW. Oh well. All I can say is own the very last 3 series to be on the C&D 10 best list. After that judgment day comes, it's every enthusiast for himself/herself.

Originally Posted by Skullbussa

I typed out a long response to Uli HH in another thread and decided it was off-topic for that thread and wanted to start it, instead, in here.

Current suggestions are that if the F80/F82 M cars follow suit of their M5 big brother, that we could be looking at $80k USD for a healthy-optioned M3.

This is dangerous for BMW in the American market.

$80k for a car that will be, to many eyes, virtually indistinguishable from its $30k+ cheaper cousin (328) is not a car that will be very marketable in the US, a country where many people who choose to spend $80,000 will want every other person to know just how much money they spent on a car.

Cost-effeciencies gained by using a slightly modified version of the N55 powerplant must be handed down to the consumer. Further, charging outrageous sums for "luxuries" such as iPod integration and Bluetooth, technologies that are now common on virtually every new inexpensive car sold, must be stopped. ( I travel very often for work and every single Ford, Hyundai, and Chrysler I have driven recently have superior iPod/iPhone integration to a E9x 3-series).

Furthermore, BMW cannot continue to rely upon heavily-subsidized lease rates to make BMWs affordable to people who are in the "99%". This is creating negative long-term effects on the brand image as there is little pride of ownership, a sense of trepidation in owning these vehicles beyond their warranty and maintenance window (which is only encouraged at the dealership by sales, unfortunately). Instead, to make these cars more affordable, BMW should focus on new methods to balance the luxury and sportiness of these cars. The market DEMANDS that BMW ups its performance of the F80/82 cars but does it also demand that additional luxuries (beyond premium fit/finish/paint/leather, etc) continue to be piled-on? I'm doubtful.

BMW simply cannot continue to try to match Cadillac/Mercedes/Lexus luxury as well as chase base 911 Carerra performance. To do so demands a car that is rocketing in cost. $80,000 is NUTS. For the enthusiast, like most of us, it is a very, very hard decision to make to buy a new F80/F82 over a very gently used 911 Turbo, GT-R, and a wide variety of other sub-Exotics that offer more compelling performance.