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      07-25-2012, 11:55 AM   #133
smadanek
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And another very low front end to get hung up pulled off on parking lot berms.....I switched to an X series because of this problem.
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      07-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
From the OP:

"The F80 M3 and F82 M4 will be powered by an inline 6 cylinder engine with multiple turbochargers, pushing the engine's output to approximately 450 horsepowers. The engine is now rumored to be an extensively reworked and reinforced N55 6-cylinder engine with a strengthened aluminium block with a heavily modified cylinder head. The Induction technology is said to be completely new as will be the latest bi-vanos variable valve timing."

So, this engine will quite probably only bare a passing resemblence to an N55. There seems to be a lot of anxiety with respect to statements made by insiders of a "massaged" or "tweaked" N55. But I think folks are reading too much into that language. The point being made with those statements, in my opinion, is that the N55 architecture will form the basis of the new engine much like the S54 was based off the M50 architecture. So its not going to be some minor overhaul. A 50% power increase from an OEM motor is not going to be a chip tune. I think this next M I6 will be serious business. It probably won't be a high revving engine per se, no, but I suspect we'll see the best effort yet from any manufacturer to mimic an N/A engine with flat torque curve and smooth power delivery. And if they go with an auxilliary electric turbo, perhaps they will find a way to eliminate lag too.
Right--you are basically in line with what I am saying, although I didn't go into the same kind of detail of those differences mentioned elsewhere. My overall point is that, in their stock versions, the N54 felt significantly stronger than the N55 has ever felt.

As a result, if any version of the N55 is to be used in the next M3/4, it will need all the overhauling to which you refer above. Because mine has no business in an ///M car...not much of an overhaul was needed for the N54 to make a great showing in the 1M.

Just sayin.
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      07-26-2012, 08:01 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
As a result, if any version of the N55 is to be used in the next M3/4, it will need all the overhauling to which you refer above.
Sure. And my point is that such revisions, if rumors can be trusted, are exactly what is in store. So, nothing to worry about at this point.

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As a result, if any version of the N55 is to be used in the next M3/4, it will need all the overhauling to which you refer above.
But if we are honest, the same applies to the N54 too, though.

That is to say that, neither an N54 nor N55 in any current form has any place in an M3. The slightly tweaked N54 was OK for the short-run, entry level 1M designed to slot in below the 400hp+ M3, but it would never go over well in an actual M3/M4.

In other words, we shouldn't really be concerned with which engine is forming the basis of the M motor because, no matter what they choose, it will more assuredly behave nothing like its series counterpart. If you take an engine, strengthen the block, and replace the cylinder head and induction system, what really are you keeping? Just the basic architecture, i.e. bore center, deck height, and perhaps select parts such as from the timing assembly etc. Whether you start with an N54 or an N55, you are going to end up with something very similar in the end. If we were to scrutinize an N54 and N55 shortblock, which one comes up the winner? Probably neither as it is just a block, crank, pistons etc. And the latter two will probably be swapped for stronger parts for the M motor anyway.
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      07-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sure. And my point is that such revisions, if rumors can be trusted, are exactly what is in store. So, nothing to worry about at this point.



But if we are honest, the same applies to the N54 too, though.

That is to say that, neither an N54 nor N55 in any current form has any place in an M3. The slightly tweaked N54 was OK for the short-run, entry level 1M designed to slot in below the 400hp+ M3, but it would never go over well in an actual M3/M4.

In other words, we shouldn't really be concerned with which engine is forming the basis of the M motor because, no matter what they choose, it will more assuredly behave nothing like its series counterpart. If you take an engine, strengthen the block, and replace the cylinder head and induction system, what really are you keeping? Just the basic architecture, i.e. bore center, deck height, and perhaps select parts such as from the timing assembly etc. Whether you start with an N54 or an N55, you are going to end up with something very similar in the end. If we were to scrutinize an N54 and N55 shortblock, which one comes up the winner? Probably neither as it is just a block, crank, pistons etc. And the latter two will probably be swapped for stronger parts for the M motor anyway.
Following the pattern, there was the N63, the S63, The S63Tü, and the N63Tü. M had made changes that impacted the base engine and their R&D was used throughout the lineup. M is searching for power and efficiency any way they can- and maybe they have designed something new that will be used in the successor or "Tü" of the N55 or they are working with certain new technologies that are rumored to be appearing this Fall in Paris.

As some have said for sometime- if the N55 is the basis, it is in the rudimentary form of cylinder design and portions of the block- the rest will be revamped; even the M135i has a different crank than the base N55 and that is only 20ish hp more. Alpina is working with the N55 currently in F3X prototypes and said that over 400hp is the target- they have some serious cooling they use in the B7 so I can only imagine what the N55 cooling will need.

The exhaust is puzzling still as the location looks final but the sound from the videos just doesn't sound final

This car is a game changer for M on many levels- they will not disappoint, remember when the V8 was going to kill the M3?
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      07-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #137
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Thanks for the post South! Cant wait to see the final product! She is going to be a thing of beauty! My next potential car...
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      07-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #138
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these tease shots are killing me .
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      07-26-2012, 03:29 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
This car is a game changer for M on many levels- they will not disappoint, remember when the V8 was going to kill the M3?
In some way it did. The M3 E9X is they heaviest M3 and is more a GT. Afterall the 911 also got more GT like.
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      07-26-2012, 03:56 PM   #140
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Boooourns to the M4. Long live the M3 coupe!
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      07-26-2012, 05:01 PM   #141
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Quote:
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In some way it did. The M3 E9X is they heaviest M3 and is more a GT. Afterall the 911 also got more GT like.
The V8 didn't kill the M3. The V8 engine is actually lighter than the S54 engine it replaced. The rest of the car is heavier, making it overall heavier than the E46 M3, but it wasn't because of the V8.
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      07-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #142
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Man I want to see the car already
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      07-26-2012, 07:09 PM   #143
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These photos are seriously teasing me... I am dying to see the car already. I really hope it's soon.
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      07-26-2012, 07:49 PM   #144
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These photos are seriously teasing me... I am dying to see the car already. I really hope it's soon.
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      07-26-2012, 10:25 PM   #145
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The rear end hangs too long compare to E92, hope it's just the camo playing eye trick.
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      07-27-2012, 12:59 AM   #146
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In due time we will see the finished product. I hope it grows on me because these shots are not doing it!
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      07-27-2012, 02:04 AM   #147
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Final body design look and the performance remains to be seen when official clear pictures emerge.
It appears tha again they are messing up with at least 2 details: side mirrors and front seats.
E36 M3 still has a better side mirrors and "vader" seats that would win a design award, after models they all had these details ruined, just did not feel they belonged to an M3.
There was a little E36 M3 copying on side mirrors for E9* M3s but but still it looked ugly and cheap.
BMW should look at other cheaper brands and learn how to improve on these details.
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      07-27-2012, 03:13 AM   #148
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So I am speculating but I have a feeling the new motor will have > 7k redline but less than 7750....
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      07-27-2012, 03:23 AM   #149
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I hope this car looks like a mini 6 series.
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      07-27-2012, 05:52 AM   #150
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Quote:
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Final body design look and the performance remains to be seen when official clear pictures emerge.
It appears tha again they are messing up with at least 2 details: side mirrors and front seats.
E36 M3 still has a better side mirrors and "vader" seats that would win a design award, after models they all had these details ruined, just did not feel they belonged to an M3.
There was a little E36 M3 copying on side mirrors for E9* M3s but but still it looked ugly and cheap.
BMW should look at other cheaper brands and learn how to improve on these details.
While I agree with you that little touches like the "vader" seats are nice and the side mirrors were cool with the E36, the mirrors on the E9X were functional aero and not just looks and were much more expensive to build and develop plus there are now regulations on surface area for mirrors that did not exist then.

The seats are what they are, M has gone up market in terms of comfort and the sportier seats just are not inline with most of the clients now- plus to keep things somewhat affordable the US market only sees one seat design because of the wonders of crash test expenses.

I, like you would love to see a more aggressive seat setup, heck if MINI is now offering Recaros from the factory I don't know why BMW can't do the same. Just make it an option across all M models and that surely will have more volume than the MINIs getting them- no?

Final mirrors and seats are a ways out on these mules but whatever they look like lets hope they are functional!
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      07-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #151
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Wheel arches are not flared enough.... Too conservative
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      07-28-2012, 09:54 AM   #152
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Looks sweet as!
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      07-28-2012, 04:01 PM   #153
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Boooourns to the M4. Long live the M3 coupe!
Fanboy alert
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      07-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #154
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Fanboy alert


I'm all for change and technology. I'm not supportive of the rumoured name change/replacement to the M4. Regardless, I appreciate your intellectual contributions to the forum.
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