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      07-19-2012, 10:25 AM   #89
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      07-19-2012, 10:30 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amdmaxx View Post
Say hello to torque and lots of it, even at low RPMs.
Say hello to a more decent fuel range and mileage..
Sound of the engine - tbd.. and no fake speaker sound please..
When I was 19, for the most days of the week I worked 18 hours for a full year to get my first M3. Why an M3 and not a C32 AMG, S2000 or a 350Z? Because of it's racecar feel, it was just different than anything I had a taste of before. IMO, only non-M3 drivers will most likely approve a turbocharged low revving M3. I personally prefer the torque that I get at high RPMs rather than low range RPMs.

And I don't care about a better fuel range and mileage. Because I don't get this car to save some money on it's fuel economy. Otherwise I'd just get a Corolla or something.

But hey, I understand that each individual have different tastes and I will most likely get this new M4 for sure. Because it will still be better than most cars in it's class
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      07-19-2012, 10:47 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Only non-M3 drivers approve a turbocharged laggy low revving M3.

Cuz a torqueless high revving V8 M3 is any better? Turbo engine are pretty much lag free these days. With full boost below 2500rpm your not waiting very long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
In the time of M3 E30, 7.200 RPM was high. Today any gazoline engine redlines at 7.000 RPM. So for a sportscar like M3, that costs 70.000 , it is low.
As you said below, its not about the redline but power delivery. A well engineered engine doesnt need to rev high itll make good power throughout the rev range.

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It is not a question of redline, but of how power is delivered. The N52 is more fun than the N54 and the S54 is even better than the nice N52.
Since when is a flat torque curve a bad way to deliver power? Unless youd rather feel the power kick in when you actually reach the power band cuz the low end is horrible?
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      07-19-2012, 11:18 AM   #92
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*yawn*

Honestly, stuff I read about the Subaru BRZ (things like low center of gravity, balanced, light, small, agile) gets me excited more than reading about this new pig.
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      07-19-2012, 11:28 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Durch Tod View Post
Cuz a torqueless high revving V8 M3 is any better?
The Ferrari 458 Italia making 540 Nm from a NA 4.5l V8 with redline at 9.000 RPM is torqueless ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Durch Tod View Post
Turbo engine are pretty much lag free these days.
Have you already tried a 2.0 TFSI ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Durch Tod View Post
With full boost below 2500rpm your not waiting very long. As you said below, its not about the redline but power delivery. A well engineered engine doesnt need to rev high itll make good power throughout the rev range.
Right, you are not waiting very long, but it ends very early with redline at 4.000 RPM, like premature ejaculation. Diesel power !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Euro Durch Tod View Post
Since when is a flat torque curve a bad way to deliver power? Unless youd rather feel the power kick in when you actually reach the power band cuz the low end is horrible?
A well engineered NA engine has a flater torque curve than any FI engine.


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      07-19-2012, 12:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Also the intake roar is missing from these cars due to the turbos.
+1 I have always thought that the S65 (and to an extent the S85) had a CSL-ish sound to it. It goes without saying that I can't wait until the year 2029 (when the CSL turns 25 and can be imported).
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      07-19-2012, 12:44 PM   #95
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It seems that turbo cars are the way of the future.. Either accept it, or stfu and move on to something different! At least now, you won't have to spend so much money to get added hp. This car could be a huge advantage for all the enthusiasts that want more power to compete with Z06s, GTRs and other mod friendly cars that could be a step up in stock power. Tuners will love this thing.
I'm all for it.
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      07-19-2012, 01:37 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The Ferrari 458 Italia making 540 Nm from a NA 4.5l V8 with redline at 9.000 RPM is torqueless ?




Have you already tried a 2.0 TFSI ?




Right, you are not waiting very long, but it ends very early with redline at 4.000 RPM, like premature ejaculation. Diesel power !




A well engineered NA engine has a flater torque curve than any FI engine.


It's all about area under the curve, if you don't understand that you should go back to school. Power delivery is what's most important, this new M3 (like all M3's) will surely be an improvement over the previous model. BMW isn't gonna start sucking dick at making sports cars all of a sudden. If you want a high-revving motor with no torque go buy an S2000, which has been revving higher than M3's for the past 10 years

And before you state that "only M3 drivers know why high-revving motors is so important, hurr durr you have a 335i" I've driven every generation of M3 for many many hours each. It's FUN to rev high, but to me it's more FUN to go FASTER. Getting punched in the face by a wave of torque still gets your adrenaline pumping as much as a motor screaming past 8k RPM.

Also, think of the aftermarket. Look at the F10 M5, spend like a grand on a tune and you pick up tons more power. I'll be willing to bet that you can pick up at least 50rwhp/70rwtq from *just* a tune on this new M3/M4, something you can never get from an n/a car. No more having to spend $5k+ on an intake, exhaust, pulleys, cams, tune, or whatever else to pick up a measly 30rwhp.
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      07-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #97
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Hmmm...

The M3/4 should still have the option of getting a NA or turbo motor

So the base M3/M4 comes with the turbo 6 and the premium or race/track version comes with the S65 from the GTS or something like that

So 450 horsepowers either way, just torque comes on at different thresholds for the purists or evolution vs revolution folks

So I am interested to see where the toyota partnership goes... so maybe the M2would be high revving 4 or turbo 4

It seems the drift world is faced with the same dilemma
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      07-19-2012, 04:50 PM   #98
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I am cautiously optimistic about the future M3/M4. Looking at the new M5 has me a bit worried regarding vague steering, brake feel, and muted engine note requiring Active Sound. I am sure the next M will be faster and lighter but hopefully BMW doesn't tilt the future M too much toward the luxury side of the equation, killing off the emotion of the car.
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      07-19-2012, 05:01 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hetzle View Post
If you want a high-revving motor with no torque go buy an S2000, which has been revving higher than M3's for the past 10 years
And if you want a low-reving engine with lots of torque buy a muscle car. A turbo just isn't in the character of an M3 and if you don't like that buy something else. Plain and simple.

Last edited by bimmerjph; 07-19-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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      07-19-2012, 11:56 PM   #100
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I'm a bit torn between the previous M3's and this new upcoming one.

I love my current E46 M3, and I absolutely love the screaming straight 6 and the 8k RPM redline. It sings when I push it, and it's absolutely amazing in every aspect (I'm sure many E92 M3 owners feel the same). But with this new M3/M4, we'll be getting better fuel economy, more torque, and more importantly - more power. I'll definitely miss the old M3's with their N/A engines, but it's time to move on with the times. Turbo cars are more fuel efficient, and powerful - it's the right direction to move in logically. But being an enthusiast, I'm finding it difficult to cope with the idea of an M3 that doesn't scream and doesn't have an 8k RPM redline.

Time will tell, we'll just have to wait until it's officially released to see what's going on. Either way, when this car is released and if I don't like it - I'll just jump on a used E92 for a much cheaper price since people will be wanting to sell theirs for the new one
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      07-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #101
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No doubt I do the exact same, and more times than I will ever admit to my therapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MPower View Post
Of course it does or should. It's an M3/M4

Nice videos and photos today bimmerpost. Keep it coming I keep checking the homepage!
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      07-20-2012, 01:38 AM   #102
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      07-20-2012, 03:40 AM   #103
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I don't know why there is such "racisme". There is not problem in prefering a FI engine, but why the f*** should all cars have FI engines ? There is the 335i and M340i for this. Why can't the M3 stay with a NA engine ? Today almost ALL cars have FI engines, and there is still not enough choice ? Nobody imposes NA engines on anyone, so why impose FI engines on us ?

The Toyota GT86/Subaru BRZ is the only f***ing small sportscar with a NA engine, and even this one, according to most, must have an FI engine ?


Why then bring up moron proposals like buying a Honda S2000. Are there any new ones ? Maybe better you go and buy a Toyota Supra, with its 2JZ-GTE 3.0l I6 twin-sroll turbo. At least that is a good engine, unlike the N54/N55.
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      07-20-2012, 05:41 AM   #104
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Stop whining and get over it! M cars and most bmws are going turbo as is pretty much every other auto manufacturer in the world. You can leave bmw for another manufacturer if you want, but they too will eventually leave their roots if they haven't already. The M brand is not selling out or throwing itself away, it will be around for a long time! Like it or not, the world is going "green" and "efficient." Adapt to the times like bmw is and have an open mind. Prove to the world it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks... Forced induction motors really aren't all that bad.
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      07-20-2012, 05:46 AM   #105
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Is that what most want in an M3 ?








Quote:
Originally Posted by csween86 View Post
Forced induction motors really aren't all that bad.
But M used to be "the best", not just "not than bad".
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      07-20-2012, 05:52 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csween86 View Post
Stop whining and get over it! M cars and most bmws are going turbo as is pretty much every other auto manufacturer in the world. You can leave bmw for another manufacturer if you want, but they too will eventually leave their roots if they haven't already. The M brand is not selling out or throwing itself away, it will be around for a long time! Like it or not, the world is going "green" and "efficient." Adapt to the times like bmw is and have an open mind. Prove to the world it is possible to teach an old dog new tricks... Forced induction motors really aren't all that bad.


Having had a E46 M3 a E90 M3 V8, a N54 and two N55s.

Comparing a 458 to a M3 V8. Come on! Please.

I can do that too:


-Porsche 917K/Can Am
BMW Turbo '72/ 2002 Turbo 1973
-Porsche 956(fastest car ever on the Nordschleife)
-Porsche 959
-Ferrari 288GTO/M/F40
-Audi S1 Sportquattro/Pug 205 T16 E2 Gr B/ Lancia 037(supercharged)/Delta S4/RS200
-Ruf CTR

etc.

All cars from the past...still icons imo.

Nowadays turbo engines are much more suitable for DD. So is the N54/55 and the oncoming M3 vs the 'old' M3 V8 which is a noisy torqueless gasguzzler in the first place as a DD(been there done that for 2 years)

Cheers
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      07-20-2012, 06:13 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Comparing a 458 to a M3 V8. Come on! Please.
Agree, M3 is old and 458 is new. But comparing M3 to F430 ? Exactly. The S65 is an affordable Ferrari engine.
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      07-20-2012, 06:30 AM   #108
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So no bespoke ///M engine?? Just a tweaked N55
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      07-20-2012, 06:40 AM   #109
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I've never driven M3 and only driven 335 for a test drive. Ive never tracked my e90 325 which is my only BMW so far. However I am curious about the new coupe and even possible I will get the new M4 thus I m reading this thread. And after reading it sounds like FI vs NA is like fake boobs - some like the feel of them some don't but all sure like looking at them
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      07-20-2012, 07:15 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Agree, M3 is old and 458 is new. But comparing M3 to F430 ? Exactly. The S65 is an affordable Ferrari engine.
It's not. Trust me. A M3 V8 is crossplane(crankshaft), a 430/458 Ferrari V8 flatplane. Ferrari has a drysump, the M3 doesn't. Talking about a racy engine.....

Drive a V8 M3 for a couple of months and feel/see for yourself.

Cheers
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