BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-07-2012, 02:10 PM   #1
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,565
iTrader: (0)

F80 M3 rumor - no Manual?

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...NEWS/120809892
FogCityM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 02:21 PM   #2
Red Bread
Brigadier General
 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,260
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Mein Got.
Red Bread is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 02:23 PM   #3
bmwmmm
Private
 
Drives: 530d
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Malta

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

"The M3 needs to have a stick shift. It will always have a stick shift,"
This is what a BMW official said last moth after giving the news that the next M5 will not be offered a manual option.
bmwmmm is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 02:47 PM   #4
JRV
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011.75 AWE90M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bedford, NY

Posts: 541
iTrader: (1)

its possible in other places aside from the US, manual will not be offered. US will/should be getting it.
__________________
'11 Black/Black GLK350 (Wife)
'04 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 (My beater)
'11 Loaded AW Fox Red/Black/Black Carbon Leather ZCP E90 M3 (Halloween Delivery)
JRV is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 02:50 PM   #5
discoboy1
Major
 
discoboy1's Avatar
 
Drives: E82 1M VO
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal

Posts: 1,341
iTrader: (3)

They offer a manual on the new M5, I don t see why it would not be available on the M3...
__________________
2011 E82 1M VO
discoboy1 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 03:31 PM   #6
FOACAD
Airborne!
 
FOACAD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 AW/CR 135i Msport
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Schweinfurt, Germany

Posts: 518
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRV View Post
its possible in other places aside from the US, manual will not be offered. US will/should be getting it.
I would believe the US not getting a manual before id believe Europe not getting one.

That said, there is no way the M3/M4 will be offered in only an auto.
FOACAD is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #7
JRV
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011.75 AWE90M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bedford, NY

Posts: 541
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOACAD View Post
I would believe the US not getting a manual before id believe Europe not getting one.

That said, there is no way the M3/M4 will be offered in only an auto.
I did not specificially point out Europe. I just know the demand here for it is something BMW still considers...for now as I hear the next gen will not have it. Also, the F10 M5 manual is only offered in the US, no? The M3 is still offered manual everywhere but it seems if BMW only considers the F10 M5 to have manual here, then it doesnt support your claim.
__________________
'11 Black/Black GLK350 (Wife)
'04 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 (My beater)
'11 Loaded AW Fox Red/Black/Black Carbon Leather ZCP E90 M3 (Halloween Delivery)
JRV is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-07-2012, 04:57 PM   #8
Jason
Administrator
 
Jason's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

Posts: 16,567
iTrader: (0)

Yes, there will be a manual transmission option for the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (not just based on the sighting of it - posted below).


Autoweek must have missed these photos:

From: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602401




__________________
Check on the Latest BMW News
Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook
Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter
Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel

Jason is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 02:35 AM   #9
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
 
Uli_HH's Avatar
 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

Posts: 572
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Yes, there will be a manual transmission option for the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (not just based on the sighting of it - posted below).
BUT ... like you says only as "(no-costs) option" and I am not shure if this option would be available worldwide ... the base M3/M4 would come as M-DCT only car.
Uli_HH is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 03:34 AM   #10
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
BUT ... like you says only as "(no-costs) option" and I am not shure if this option would be available worldwide ... the base M3/M4 would come as M-DCT only car.
That's unlikely. Why would BMW forego the premium for M-DCT?

Also, the article is wrong on several other points.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 04:08 AM   #11
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
 
Uli_HH's Avatar
 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

Posts: 572
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
That's unlikely. Why would BMW forego the premium for M-DCT?

Also, the article is wrong on several other points.


Best regards,
south
Unlikly? Really?

For me it make more sence than not doing so!

So they could achieve an higher realistic base price for the M3 / M4 and all freaks/fans who couldnīt live without an MT also have to pay this price even they get less!?

Thats modern BMW economics ... like the M Performance Automobiles - where the buyers get realistic very less more (mostly image!) for an much, much higher price.
Uli_HH is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 04:53 AM   #12
southlight
Moderator / European Editor
 
southlight's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany

Posts: 6,748
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Unlikly? Really?

For me it make more sence than not doing so!

So they could achieve an higher realistic base price for the M3 / M4 and all freaks/fans who couldnīt live without an MT also have to pay this price even they get less!?

Thats modern BMW economics ... like the M Performance Automobiles - where the buyers get realistic very less more (mostly image!) for an much, much higher price.
You know, with an overall take rate of the M-DCT of some 70 percent you make more money with 70 percent paying the DCT premium than with 30 percent (MT buyers) not paying less.

It's also a hypothetical question as we're fairly sure there will be an MT for the next M3/4.


Best regards,
south
__________________
Those forums...WHY NOT?


JOIN THE 6MT CLUB GROUP
southlight is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 05:19 AM   #13
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
 
Uli_HH's Avatar
 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

Posts: 572
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You know, with an overall take rate of the M-DCT of some 70 percent you make more money with 70 percent paying the DCT premium than with 30 percent (MT buyers) not paying less.

It's also a hypothetical question as we're fairly sure there will be an MT for the next M3/4.


Best regards,
south
NO ... you misunderstood me ... I donīt says that the base price of the M3 / M4 than would be calculated without putting the M-DCT price ontop.

SO they would make more money because the few Cars without DCT wonīt be cheaper ... and all must pay the price of an car with M-DCT. Simple logic.
Uli_HH is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 08:44 AM   #14
Gins
I can't find my pants.
 
Gins's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 Supergirl Combo M3, YMB-SO
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 8=====D \o/ 335i, yo

Posts: 2,504
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3 E90  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Yes, there will be a manual transmission option for the F80 M3 / F82 M4 (not just based on the sighting of it - posted below).


Autoweek must have missed these photos:

From: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602401
Thanks Jason! Butt cheeks, unclenched.
Gins is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 08:53 AM   #15
mapezzul
Special Agent
 
mapezzul's Avatar
 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

Posts: 1,736
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
NO ... you misunderstood me ... I donīt says that the base price of the M3 / M4 than would be calculated without putting the M-DCT price ontop.

SO they would make more money because the few Cars without DCT wonīt be cheaper ... and all must pay the price of an car with M-DCT. Simple logic.
Look at what they are doing with the M5.... And there will be a manual- M has gone on the record numerous times that the M cars under the M5 will have manuals going forward, not to mention Jason's spy shots. There was a LOT of BS in that article.
mapezzul is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 08:54 AM   #16
as7920
Lieutenant Colonel
 
as7920's Avatar
 
Drives: AW M135i 5dr auto
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

Posts: 1,765
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snig View Post
Thanks Jason! Butt cheeks, unclenched.
Not so fast. The Autoweek article has made it onto Jalopnik!
as7920 is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 09:10 AM   #17
Red Bread
Brigadier General
 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,260
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
The wording of the article, and the probable reality is that there will simply no longer be a discount for a manual car, just as they've done with the F30. Raise the base price to include the automatic pricing, and offer a manual at no savings. Clever, really. Just more expensive for those of us in the minority who want all three pedals.
Red Bread is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 09:21 AM   #18
Uli_HH
Lieutenant
 
Uli_HH's Avatar
 
Drives: AW M3 E90)/ 523i Touring
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hamburg Germany

Posts: 572
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Look at what they are doing with the M5.... And there will be a manual- M has gone on the record numerous times that the M cars under the M5 will have manuals going forward, not to mention Jason's spy shots. There was a LOT of BS in that article.
With the LOT of BS in that article you are totally right ... specially what they say about the V6.

But for me, as I told earlier, is clear that an manual would come only as an no-cost-saving option and the base price M3 / M4 would include the M-DCT tranny.
Uli_HH is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 09:52 AM   #19
mapezzul
Special Agent
 
mapezzul's Avatar
 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

Posts: 1,736
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
The wording of the article, and the probable reality is that there will simply no longer be a discount for a manual car, just as they've done with the F30. Raise the base price to include the automatic pricing, and offer a manual at no savings. Clever, really. Just more expensive for those of us in the minority who want all three pedals.
That is true but on the other hand the problem is that because there are less buyers the transmission is not cheaper than the DCT- less economies of scale to decrease price per unit and the cost of development not to mention the EPA testing costs make the price not as much as a discount as it could be.

I'll be the first to admit I always felt BMW jacked up the price of the autos to make more money on an option the vast majority of people would be buying and making the base model (manual) a bit less than it should be to get people in the door, but those days are long gone and the "Super Size" mentality is now in car land- package more and make it seem like a "value".

But in no way shape or form is the M3 ditching the manual- it will be a "no cost" option.

BTW- What German or American ever uses the term "Utter rubbish"? None I have ever met, that is a UK term and last I checked the UK didn't have any high ranking officials at M, but ....

Last edited by mapezzul; 08-08-2012 at 10:07 AM.
mapezzul is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #20
SD Z4MR
Blue Bimmers Rule!
 
SD Z4MR's Avatar
 
Drives: '06 Z4 M Rdstr | '11 335is E92
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 682
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
That article has been changed since the link was posted yesterday. One of the things that struck me immediately and raised my skepticism level was that the car was initially revered to as the "F30 M3". That has been since been changed to refer to it as the F80. Maybe that was a typo or just force of habit, but that's what it originally said.

Most of it was a rehash of old rumors with the mention of no manual as the only new revelation. I'm surprised that they didn't mention the triple turbo rumor.
__________________
Mine: 2006 Z4 Roadster | Interlagos Blue Metallic | Black Extended Nappa Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Premium | Navigation | Heated Seats | iPod Adapter | Purchased 7/19/12
Hers: 2011 335is Coupe | Le Mans Blue Metallic | Black Dakota Leather | Dark Glacier Aluminum | 6MT | Premium | Convenience | Heated Seats | Navigation | Harmon Kardon | iPod/USB | European Delivery 5/12/11

SD Z4MR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-10-2012, 11:41 PM   #21
Tacoma
Private First Class
 
Drives: BMW's for 20 years
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto

Posts: 169
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You know, with an overall take rate of the M-DCT of some 70 percent you make more money with 70 percent paying the DCT premium than with 30 percent (MT buyers) not paying less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
NO ... you misunderstood me ... I donīt says that the base price of the M3 / M4 than would be calculated without putting the M-DCT price ontop.

SO they would make more money because the few Cars without DCT wonīt be cheaper ... and all must pay the price of an car with M-DCT. Simple logic.
What you appear to be saying is to bump up the MSRP by adding M-DCT as standard feature and that way you make more money. However, I think MSRP is set/fixed by marketing, by factoring in cost, competition, etc. and so whatever MSRP they decide on, should be the optimum they think will maximize sales in that country and so you just can't bump up MSRP like that.

So, I agree with southlight that at whatever fixed MSRP that BMW decides on as the optimum, all else being equal, your margin will be greater if you offer M-DCT as an extra cost optional feature.

But I guess all else is not always equal. One exception that I can think of is where by economies of scale it costs more to install the lower demand manual tranny, and so they want to make the M-DCT the standard tranny to discourage people from ordering the manual.
Tacoma is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-11-2012, 08:43 AM   #22
mapezzul
Special Agent
 
mapezzul's Avatar
 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

Posts: 1,736
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
What you appear to be saying is to bump up the MSRP by adding M-DCT as standard feature and that way you make more money. However, I think MSRP is set/fixed by marketing, by factoring in cost, competition, etc. and so whatever MSRP they decide on, should be the optimum they think will maximize sales in that country and so you just can't bump up MSRP like that.

So, I agree with southlight that at whatever fixed MSRP that BMW decides on as the optimum, all else being equal, your margin will be greater if you offer M-DCT as an extra cost optional feature.

But I guess all else is not always equal. One exception that I can think of is where by economies of scale it costs more to install the lower demand manual tranny, and so they want to make the M-DCT the standard tranny to discourage people from ordering the manual.
Your latter commentary is what BMW has been doing in the US, making the Auto/DCT as standard and "charging" for the manual- The E92 M3 being the counter to that but the M5 make the DCT standard as far as M cars (manual a no cost option) go and it seems like the F80 will follow in its footsteps.
mapezzul is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:27 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST