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      10-09-2012, 10:03 AM   #463
albertabahn
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Originally Posted by auaq View Post
Has anyone noticed something funny in that engine compartment?
I give up what do you find funny? Do you see a dipstick?!
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      10-09-2012, 10:24 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Both an increased displacement and forged crank would be sensible and welcomed changes to make the engine both better and more special.
Yup, this would be very welcome news.
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      10-09-2012, 01:35 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by albertabahn View Post
I give up what do you find funny? Do you see a dipstick?!
Notice the orientation of the wiper arms on the windshield.
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      10-09-2012, 02:51 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by auaq View Post
Notice the orientation of the wiper arms on the windshield.
I think you lost people when you said "in the engine compartment". Or maybe it's because it's long been the case that many of the M mules are right hand drive.
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      10-09-2012, 04:20 PM   #467
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I think you lost people when you said "in the engine compartment". Or maybe it's because it's long been the case that many of the M mules are right hand drive.
Well, I just want it to make it a little bit tricky that's all and the entire picture pretty much covers the engine compartment.
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      10-09-2012, 07:52 PM   #468
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I think it would be pretty easy to work out the peak horsepower for the new car if they leak a peak rpm...considering they've already said peak torque is around 395lb/ft.... and we could probably assume the power curve will pretty much match the F10 M5... I just chucked the numbers into excel... the numbers in bold suggest are the suggested outputs assuming an M5-esque curve... It seems pretty obvious bmw would have purposely detuned top end if output is much below 450bhp...and M cars are meant to be all about top end power...so Id imagine they dont want to destroy their brand image too much. Sorry for the bad dodgy excel format


RPM 290 340 350 360 370 380 390 400 Lb/ft
1000 55 65 67 69 70 72 74 76
1500 83 97 100 103 106 109 111 114
2000 110 129 133 137 141 145 149 152
2500 138 162 167 171 176 181 186 190
3000 166 194 200 206 211 217 223 228
3500 193 227 233 240 247 253 260 267
4000 221 259 267 274 282 289 297 305
4500 248 291 300 308 317 326 334 343
5000 276 324 333 343 352 362 371 381
5500 304 356 367 377 387 398 408 419
6000 331 388 400 411 423 434 446 457
6500 359 421 433 446 458 470 483 495
7000 387 453 466 480 493 506 520 533
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      10-09-2012, 10:00 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by BI2016 View Post
I think it would be pretty easy to work out the peak horsepower for the new car if they leak a peak rpm...considering they've already said peak torque is around 395lb/ft.... and we could probably assume the power curve will pretty much match the F10 M5... I just chucked the numbers into excel... the numbers in bold suggest are the suggested outputs assuming an M5-esque curve... It seems pretty obvious bmw would have purposely detuned top end if output is much below 450bhp...and M cars are meant to be all about top end power...so Id imagine they dont want to destroy their brand image too much. Sorry for the bad dodgy excel format


RPM 290 340 350 360 370 380 390 400 Lb/ft
1000 55 65 67 69 70 72 74 76
1500 83 97 100 103 106 109 111 114
2000 110 129 133 137 141 145 149 152
2500 138 162 167 171 176 181 186 190
3000 166 194 200 206 211 217 223 228
3500 193 227 233 240 247 253 260 267
4000 221 259 267 274 282 289 297 305
4500 248 291 300 308 317 326 334 343
5000 276 324 333 343 352 362 371 381
5500 304 356 367 377 387 398 408 419
6000 331 388 400 411 423 434 446 457
6500 359 421 433 446 458 470 483 495
7000 387 453 466 480 493 506 520 533
A good more detailed spreadsheet analysis adding to the same initial point by NISFAN above. The RUMORED specs of 395 ft lb and around the same hp as existing E9X M3 is entirely incompatible with a 7500 rpm or even 7000 (lower than F10 M5) redline. The numbers provided in the post are completely fishy, even though they claim to come from a reliable "inside source". The only possibilities are underrating (more actual power), less torque, a way lower redline or some combination of those.
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      10-10-2012, 07:04 PM   #470
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I agree...I suppose its possible to have a low 400s peak output if peak power is produced at around 6000rpm ( which would be very unimpressive for a smaller M-motor) with torque having dropped off to 360-ish by then... if this were the case, there would really be no point in buying an M3....I sincerely hope the car is making peak power at atleast 6500rpm + otherwise you'd probably be better off buying the next gen C63 or even the RS4 - which to me is the only car to potentially keep the e90 v8 style dream alive.
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      10-29-2012, 10:52 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
SORRY, but if the engine specs in this thread are correct ... and I think they would be, than that would be very bad news - engine wise ... torque increase but no hp-increase means that it only counts to make the engine as cheap as possible
An torque increase is an easy thing in the case of an turbo engine, but if they really cancel the planed/promised power increase to at least ~450hp that means that there is simple no more growth potential in the chosen N55 based I6 ... if there would be this potential I am to 100% shure the engine would have no less than 450hp !!!

Since my infos say clearly that the new S55(?) would be nearly in the same weight class of the S65 ... which the better end for the V8(!) ... it make for me no really sence to drop the great S65 for the S55(?) - performence wise not cost wise(!) ... I am 100% certain that with the better packing and even lighter N/A V8 in the overall F8x would perform even better and would be much moreo fun to drive (with an only slightly worse mpg number!) ... M3s were never high low-end-torque cars but yet in als cases better than all competitors ... they were real race cars in an coupe/sedan outfit never torque monsters !!!

Looks as if the BMW AG prepared from pure profit reasons to sacrifice almost everything that has identified a previously M3 ... the new M3 is from the motor point of something completely different than we are used to - more boring surfing on the torque wave as spontaneous biting revving -> more 335i than just a real M3 driver and fan can be right.


The rest of the car seems to be as great as expected ... agressive sporty styling and much lower weight ... seems as I should look if I can get an nearly new S65 from ebay and go to Manhart to get the real exciting new M3.

Greets Uli_HH
Maybe I'm not reading the post thoroughly but, there is no reference made to the engine speed at which the torque is made. Although, I suppose it would be reasonable to assume that the engine makes full boost and therefore, large amounts of torque at a low engine speed, just as the N54/N55 does. Hmmmm.........
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      10-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
Maybe I'm not reading the post thoroughly but, there is no reference made to the engine speed at which the torque is made. Although, I suppose it would be reasonable to assume that the engine makes full boost and therefore, large amounts of torque at a low engine speed, just as the N54/N55 does. Hmmmm.........
Use a spreadsheet, draw some reasonable torque curves (say based on 1M, 335i or M5) and look at the resulting power curves. Just recall that in US customary units hp = torque x rpm/5252. Again given the F10 M5 has a redline of 7000 and that typically the M3 has a higher redline, 7000 should be considered a bare minimum value. From these basic ideas you can see that 400 ft lb and "about" the same power as the existing car along with a 7k redline just DOES NOT ADD UP.
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      12-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by PAMidge View Post
I found where to put the washer fluid!
Well, that's a great thing. With how cramped that bay looks, it seemed likely that an engine drop would have been required to change any of the fluids.
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      12-10-2012, 03:43 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
I am not with you, all M3's since E30 used the base engine from an existing parts bin, and were developed into a special M3 engine. This hasn't changed for F80/2.

Sure E92 had a more special engine, but that was helped by the fact that the M3 GTR had a tuned version of this engine for racing, and it existed in V10 format already. Easy to lop off 2 cylinders. If the S65 didn't have such a short stroke (poor for turbocharging) they could again lop off another 2 cylinders to make V6 Turbo.

As for more options turbo charging a V engine, that is rubbish, an inline engine is much easier to plumb.
I don't know if I agree. The S50 and S54 didn't really share anything with the standard motors except for the configuration.

No matter how hard you try, you will never get an S54 head to mate with an M5x block for example.
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      12-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terraphantm View Post
I don't know if I agree. The S50 and S54 didn't really share anything with the standard motors except for the configuration.

No matter how hard you try, you will never get an S54 head to mate with an M5x block for example.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1422245
read it and enjoy
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      12-12-2012, 05:46 AM   #476
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In german forums are recent speculations that the leaked engine pics posted here, didnīt show the new M3/M4 engine but the also new M340i/M440i engine - based on an N55 succesor !!!

This specs are based on insider-informations, that the M3-Testmules are also used for development of the N55 succesor - for the M Performance Automobile F3x and later the .35is. So also the "F80M3" fueled with E85 in sweden could be one of this engine-test-cars. The use of the "F80" body was logical because the N55 succesor is/was for sure one candidate for the M3/M4 engine - in its highest developed form ... but it didnīt says for 100% that this engine was also really choosen.

This let german forums speculate that there is already an chance that the new M3/M4 gets an other engine than the "here confirmed" I6 - also BMW/M-GmbH insiders considers other possible F8x engine variants ... for me this are good news.

The M3/M4-engine is already the biggest BMW secret until now ... only time will tell us the truth.

Greets Uli_HH
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      12-12-2012, 07:37 AM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
In german forums are recent speculations that the leaked engine pics posted here, didnīt show the new M3/M4 engine but the also new M340i/M440i engine - based on an N55 succesor !!!

This specs are based on insider-informations, that the M3-Testmules are also used for development of the N55 succesor - for the M Performance Automobile F3x and later the .35is. So also the "F80M3" fueled with E85 in sweden could be one of this engine-test-cars. The use of the "F80" body was logical because the N55 succesor is/was for sure one candidate for the M3/M4 engine - in its highest developed form ... but it didnīt says for 100% that this engine was also really choosen.

This let german forums speculate that there is already an chance that the new M3/M4 gets an other engine than the "here confirmed" I6 - also BMW/M-GmbH insiders considers other possible F8x engine variants ... for me this are good news.

The M3/M4-engine is already the biggest BMW secret until now ... only time will tell us the truth.

Greets Uli_HH

^^That's very interesting. I have a few friends who work for BMW AG. They have friends who work at ///M. They have been told the new F82 M3/M4 engine will be called the S55 engine code. It will be based on the N55 valvetronic engine, but with TWO twin scroll turbos. They also told me that while 450 PS is the horsepower goal... the engine is making around 430 PS but with much more torque than they(///M) thought they would have made.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.


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      12-31-2013, 03:24 PM   #478
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Things I don't like about it

You have to be kidding me on the way this engine compartment looks. It's terrible. I absolutely hate the very visible tack welds on the black J like structures in the front sides. Just lazy to show those. It's in all the 3 and 4 series. YUK. This engine looks like (as someone else said) a bunch of parts thrown together.

I hope to heck that this isn't the real engine. It may go like stink, but it looks like a bunch of bolt-ons, not a billet one piece that previous ///M's all have.

-gh
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      12-31-2013, 03:42 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
In german forums are recent speculations that the leaked engine pics posted here, didnīt show the new M3/M4 engine but the also new M340i/M440i engine - based on an N55 succesor !!!

This specs are based on insider-informations, that the M3-Testmules are also used for development of the N55 succesor - for the M Performance Automobile F3x and later the .35is. So also the "F80M3" fueled with E85 in sweden could be one of this engine-test-cars. The use of the "F80" body was logical because the N55 succesor is/was for sure one candidate for the M3/M4 engine - in its highest developed form ... but it didnīt says for 100% that this engine was also really choosen.

This let german forums speculate that there is already an chance that the new M3/M4 gets an other engine than the "here confirmed" I6 - also BMW/M-GmbH insiders considers other possible F8x engine variants ... for me this are good news.

The M3/M4-engine is already the biggest BMW secret until now ... only time will tell us the truth.

Greets Uli_HH
Well now Uli look back at this thread... it looks like we now know the leaked photo of the M3/M4 engine was indeed that of the next M3/M4. Twin turbo inline six producing around 420 PS and 550Nm of Tq.

We also know that the current M235i/3erGT/F3x/F2x engine produces 320 HP while the PPK versions produce 340 HP.

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      12-31-2013, 03:58 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by greenhobbu View Post
You have to be kidding me on the way this engine compartment looks. It's terrible. I absolutely hate the very visible tack welds on the black J like structures in the front sides. Just lazy to show those. It's in all the 3 and 4 series. YUK. This engine looks like (as someone else said) a bunch of parts thrown together.

I hope to heck that this isn't the real engine. It may go like stink, but it looks like a bunch of bolt-ons, not a billet one piece that previous ///M's all have.

-gh
there is more updated pics found in here.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923444
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      12-31-2013, 04:26 PM   #481
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IMO the S55 is all about performance. It ain't pretty, exotic or nice sounding but it will likely kick butt. It does seem to be a patch work of existing technologies and parts to a large extent. Does it matter? Not for the driving experience but it does play a role in owner satisfaction just as owning a Swiss hand made mechanical watch gives more satisfaction than a $20 target watch that out performs the Swiss watch in all categories.

BMW gave us Swiss watches for Target price for a while, that period has now come to an end. We still get the performance but not the soft values of uniqueness and specialness.
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      12-31-2013, 04:39 PM   #482
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IMO the S55 is all about performance. It ain't pretty, exotic or nice sounding but it will likely kick butt. It does seem to be a patch work of existing technologies and parts to a large extent. Does it matter? Not for the driving experience but it does play a role in owner satisfaction just as owning a Swiss hand made mechanical watch gives more satisfaction than a $20 target watch that out performs the Swiss watch in all categories.

BMW gave us Swiss watches for Target price for a while, that period has now come to an end. We still get the performance but not the soft values of uniqueness and specialness.
perfectly said. thats a concept that many people do not understand. in general.

many people do not understand why people with money buy the things they do. because its not always about getting the most for the money. but rather having something that holds true to uniqueness and specialness.
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      01-01-2014, 09:57 AM   #483
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As long a BMW understands...

I think that BMW understands exactly why people with money spend $$$ on their ///M cars. The M5/M6 engine is a good example. Perfectly symmetrical, and looks somewhat hand built. Since BMW always tries to make the next M3 faster/better than the previous, performance is a given. What they chose to ignore (based on these early photo's) was the hand built eye candy look of the engine bay.

They seem to have gone the way of the Subaru WRX engine bay look (not entirely a mortal sin). The Mitsu turbo's were a bit of a shock as well...

-gh
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      01-01-2014, 10:28 AM   #484
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Quote:
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BMW gave us Swiss watches for Target price for a while, that period has now come to an end. We still get the performance but not the soft values of uniqueness and specialness.
Nice analogy, but in EU //M cars never were bargains in the first place. Not at all.

On the other hand a Swatch is a Swiss watch too, I have a Diaphane One. Itīs way more unique than my Seadweller. And my current car is more unique and special than 90% of the E9x M3s produced. Even if itīs equipped with some lame N54 AG engine lol.


Uniqueness and specialness concerns the whole package, not just the engine.

Cheers
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