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      09-13-2012, 11:53 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Octane View Post
That a2w intercooler looks so small...
The heat capacity of water is much higher than air making it a much more efficient way to cool the charge.
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      09-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #68
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Water cooling....interesting. Guess that's what they meant by more efficient.
Consistent IAT's probably allows for a little better MPG when you're talking about a F/I 400+HP engine.
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      09-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #69
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      09-13-2012, 11:57 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Red Bread
Quote:
Originally Posted by BH_Fanaticos77 View Post
why would you think that? if you think about it, inline 6 is a long engine and can't really benefit from V-config packaging. It was shown that V8 in E92 is lighter than I6 in E46. I am not saying it will not be improvement in weight to E46 but it will not be necessarily lighter. Add turbos to that config and all that comes with it you can't be really serious about 100lb weight saving.
The S54 was an iron block while the S65 is an aluminum block. If the now I6 is an aluminum block, it could still weigh less than the S65, even with all of this stuff bolted to it. I don't think it will be noticeably lighter, but it likely won't be heavier.
Well if this car is going to be lighter than the current M3, that somewhat worries me. Not because I like a heavy car but because where are they taking that weight out. Obviously I'm purely speculating here but normally inline 6 engines are not the lightest around because of the long crank that is used. That alone is gonna make it harder to be "lighter" than the current V8. So for arguments sake, let's say the motors weigh in at the same amount. What would then make me nervous is that they are taking weight out from other spots which give the car that "solid", secure feel. I'm not talking about how the car could feel when driving (which I'm sure will be great), I'm talking about just the overall solidness when say you close a door, hood, trunk, go over a speed bump, the little things like that. And if the car is going to be lighter, and the motors do weigh the same, then that means the front end of this car is gonna carry more weight possibly making the car feel nose heavy and not that sweet 50/50 distribution that we all love. Now if the motor IS lighter somehow then I just wasted all my time texting this and that's why the M engineers are some of the best in the world hahaha
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      09-13-2012, 11:58 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kardboard View Post
N55


M3/M4 Engine




Does anyone think the engine looks the same? I don't. I believe they will give this engine a proper S designation.

Anyone think its larger than a 3.0L?

E46 M3
It will be a proper "S" just like the X5/X6/M5/M6. From what I heard early on is that we have never seen the engine in this form before- block, head, etc... not saying that it is "all new" but this is a huge revision. That is why I earlier pointed out the oil, its in a different location than the stock N55 (thanks for posting those comparos) Meaning there is a new head, not a reworked base head- can't make that big of a change without recasting. There are also some other changes that are not just for the turbos...
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      09-13-2012, 11:58 AM   #72
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Cool to finally see photos of the engine.

I think BMW needs to tread lightly here. While I am excited to see what the new M3/4 will be capable of, I think BMW may be making a mistake with their engine choice. From the perspective of production and costs, it makes sense for BMW to utilize what is expected to be an updated N55. However, this is not the first time that BMW has utilized a modified version of a 3 series engine to power their M3. The US version of the E36 M3 utilized what was essentially a bored out version of the 2.5L engine that powered the 325. BMW did this to keep production costs down and thus they were able to sell the second generation M3 at a similar price point to the previous E30 M3.

The downside was that the US spec E36 M3 received/receives the title of basically being a modified 3 series and not a true M car. largely due to the fact that the US spec E36 does not have a purely BMW Motorsport derived engine. I have a feeling that if the new M3 has an updated/uprated N55, a lot of the critics will be saying the new M3 is just a souped up 3 series. Especially if the new car comes with a BMW Motorsport massaged standard 3 series engine and not a stand alone M unit.

Which leads me to the point that the 1M was a stroke a genius from the BMW Marketers. The 1M paved the way for what is now the formula for building M cars.

Jason
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      09-13-2012, 11:58 AM   #73
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as soon as you put an intake on it, tune it, and really open it up... that this is going to be a beast
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It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
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      09-13-2012, 12:00 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kardboard
N55


M3/M4 Engine




Does anyone think the engine looks the same? I don't. I believe they will give this engine a proper S designation.

Anyone think its larger than a 3.0L?

E46 M3
It looks very similar to me but not the same but I can bet my life they share a lot of parts together. This is the first time I seen an m3 motor so similar to the 3 series but that's me
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      09-13-2012, 12:03 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer View Post
I was hoping to see a dipstick.

Looks like it will be a pain to work on. Same for the M5.
The days of an overall satisfactory car ownership that includes working on the car are over. I am also not yet sold on the "lighter than the current M3" statement above either. Sure they may figure out how to make 7lbs lighter but who are they kidding.
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      09-13-2012, 12:03 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN View Post
Well if this car is going to be lighter than the current M3, that somewhat worries me. Not because I like a heavy car but because where are they taking that weight out. Obviously I'm purely speculating here but normally inline 6 engines are not the lightest around because of the long crank that is used. That alone is gonna make it harder to be "lighter" than the current V8. So for arguments sake, let's say the motors weigh in at the same amount. What would then make me nervous is that they are taking weight out from other spots which give the car that "solid", secure feel. I'm not talking about how the car could feel when driving (which I'm sure will be great), I'm talking about just the overall solidness when say you close a door, hood, trunk, go over a speed bump, the little things like that. And if the car is going to be lighter, and the motors do weigh the same, then that means the front end of this car is gonna carry more weight possibly making the car feel nose heavy and not that sweet 50/50 distribution that we all love. Now if the motor IS lighter somehow then I just wasted all my time texting this and that's why the M engineers are some of the best in the world hahaha
I think your right about the engine weight. We already know that BMW is delving deeper into composites and alloys and that they will have a larger role in the new M3s production. I also feel that with BMWs advances in composites and alloys, they will not have issues preserving the solid feel of their cars.

Jason
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      09-13-2012, 12:04 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91Octane View Post
That a2w intercooler looks so small...
Thats the beauty of Air/Water setups. Not much size is needed to support massive horsepower levels.

Back in my MR2 days, guys shooting for big power would either to a large trunk mount A/A intercooler, or a MUCH smaller A/W in the engine bay, with a radiator up front for heat exchange.
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      09-13-2012, 12:13 PM   #78
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      09-13-2012, 12:14 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
Cool to finally see photos of the engine.

I think BMW needs to tread lightly here. While I am excited to see what the new M3/4 will be capable of, I think BMW may be making a mistake with their engine choice. From the perspective of production and costs, it makes sense for BMW to utilize what is expected to be an updated N55. However, this is not the first time that BMW has utilized a modified version of a 3 series engine to power their M3. The US version of the E36 M3 utilized what was essentially a bored out version of the 2.5L engine that powered the 325. BMW did this to keep production costs down and thus they were able to sell the second generation M3 at a similar price point to the previous E30 M3.

The downside was that the US spec E36 M3 received/receives the title of basically being a modified 3 series and not a true M car. largely due to the fact that the US spec E36 does not have a purely BMW Motorsport derived engine. I have a feeling that if the new M3 has an updated/uprated N55, a lot of the critics will be saying the new M3 is just a souped up 3 series. Especially if the new car comes with a BMW Motorsport massaged standard 3 series engine and not a stand alone M unit.

Which leads me to the point that the 1M was a stroke a genius from the BMW Marketers. The 1M paved the way for what is now the formula for building M cars.

Jason
Every M3 used the stock block up until the E9X cars.
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      09-13-2012, 12:18 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by DMafia46 View Post
fuck yeah
I couldn't say it better
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      09-13-2012, 12:24 PM   #81
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Interesting pics! So we know it's a in-line six. Not a V6 as a 3/4's version of the ttv8 M5 engine like some claimed. We can see a large air to water intercooler. Also note how we have two "cold lines" coming out of the a2w intercooler - but only one going in! That must mean TWO turbos. Not three. Unless the other air box on the passenger side is for the electric on demand turbo? ???

Also interesting is the two air filter boxes. This car is a RHD(!) werkstestwagen, just look at the windshield wipers. The shock towers have that spider web look of the F10 M5 EDC shock towers have.

I have "heard" BMW have gone with a hybrid marriage of the N54 block(& internals) and used the N55 double vanous head of the N55 - and then worked some M magic on that combo. Perhaps these rumors are true. ? S55 anyone?


I also hear the DCT is all new too for the M3/M4 along with some other drivetrain surprises.
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      09-13-2012, 12:24 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
Cool to finally see photos of the engine.

I think BMW needs to tread lightly here. While I am excited to see what the new M3/4 will be capable of, I think BMW may be making a mistake with their engine choice. From the perspective of production and costs, it makes sense for BMW to utilize what is expected to be an updated N55. However, this is not the first time that BMW has utilized a modified version of a 3 series engine to power their M3. The US version of the E36 M3 utilized what was essentially a bored out version of the 2.5L engine that powered the 325. BMW did this to keep production costs down and thus they were able to sell the second generation M3 at a similar price point to the previous E30 M3.

The downside was that the US spec E36 M3 received/receives the title of basically being a modified 3 series and not a true M car. largely due to the fact that the US spec E36 does not have a purely BMW Motorsport derived engine. I have a feeling that if the new M3 has an updated/uprated N55, a lot of the critics will be saying the new M3 is just a souped up 3 series. Especially if the new car comes with a BMW Motorsport massaged standard 3 series engine and not a stand alone M unit.

Which leads me to the point that the 1M was a stroke a genius from the BMW Marketers. The 1M paved the way for what is now the formula for building M cars.

Jason
Nicely written post, I have a few points of my own to add. The US spec E36 M3 got a bad rap as it was a poor relation to the Euro version, down 80 naturally horsepower no less. That will not be the case with this engine, like the E46 and E9x the power will be the same both sides of the Atlantic. Also, the 1M engine, if I remember correctly, is exactly the same as the 135iS engine (I could be wrong here, if so someone pls correct). The f8x engine will have a raft of hardware changes and make far bigger power.

On a different note, I for one think it's great that this car will be lighter than the E9x. Sure, it'll still be a heavy car relative to a GT3 or Miata but the 4-5seats, proper trunk and all mod-cons give it massive real world practicality advantages. The M3 has been heavily biased towards being jack-of-all-trades vehicle since 1992. What sets it apart is that it is able to hit higher heights of track and fun than its direct rivals. I don't this one will disappoint. For a bigger, stiffer car to weigh less than it's predecessor is a huge step in the right direction, whether it's 200 lbs or 2lbs.
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      09-13-2012, 12:26 PM   #83
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I just fell in love.
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      09-13-2012, 12:26 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post

I also hear the DCT is all new too for the M3/M4 along with some other drivetrain surprises.
Able to share more on this? So it's DCTII, in effect? Would that make it similar to the version in the M5. If so, it's rated to well above 500 lb/ft which should please the tuners and be good news for longevity of those who keep things stock....
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      09-13-2012, 12:30 PM   #85
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I really wish we could see the intake manifold. That makes an engine bay look so much better.
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      09-13-2012, 12:31 PM   #86
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I guess bmw is sticking with a maf sensor. I was hoping to see air fuel metering found on the n54. Im sure the aftermarket will find away around it.
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      09-13-2012, 12:34 PM   #87
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I don't care if the engine looks like something only a mother would love. That's just aesthetics.

As long as this car performs well on and off the track, i'll be all set with the F80 M3.
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      09-13-2012, 12:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kardboard View Post
N55
I don't believe that is an N55 engine. I think the picture is of an N54.

The M3/M4 engine does look similar to the N55.

EDIT: Here's N55 (took the picture from Google Images)
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