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      05-10-2012, 02:36 PM   #1
fueledbymetal
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How much better will an F80 M3 handle than an F30 with adaptive suspension?

The 335 has more power than I'd ever really use on the street (and I have no intention to track the car), but I want the best possible handling & responsiveness. So I'm wondering how different or improved could the F80 M3 handling be compared to an F30 with the adaptive suspension?

Obviously nobody's driven an F80 yet, but I'm hoping some anecdotal evidence from the e90 M3 or an eduactaed guess can answer my question. TIA!
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      05-11-2012, 07:10 PM   #2
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I think it will be markedly different. Each individual component contributes to the entire handling differences. Ride height, spring rate, suspension arm geometry and weight, damping rates, elastomer mounts/stops durometer, presence or absence of rigid pivots, tires, steering ratio and leverage, DSC, ABS and suspension software, etc., etc. All of these things are different from a base car to the M car and they all add up in each model in a very noticeable fashion. If you want the best handling go for the M, hands down, no questions.

Or... buy the base car and mod the piss out of it, typically making many things actually worse and then boast about how the base car can be made better than the M for less money...
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      05-11-2012, 09:27 PM   #3
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You want handling? Put on some KW coil overs + F&R Sway Bars and it will handle better than a stock M3 hands down.
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      05-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StylePoints View Post
You want handling? Put on some KW coil overs + F&R Sway Bars and it will handle better than a stock M3 hands down.
Yah right.
Why do you drive an M3 anyway ? Just get a 335i for 25k less, and put some KW and F&R on it... (according to your own logic)
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      05-12-2012, 03:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Yah right.
Why do you drive an M3 anyway ? Just get a 335i for 25k less, and put some KW and F&R on it... (according to your own logic)

Because when you put coilovers+sway bars on the M3 it handles better than a modified 335i. And I did have a 335i w/ full bolt on.
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      05-12-2012, 04:33 PM   #6
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some people like to have some flexibility in their spine when theyre not on the track though, thats y the m3 stock is just the best car out there

i had an e46 m3 then i modded it out, loved it for awhile but really didnt need all the suspension upgrades, it drove awesome as it was and ill never forget it. i was young then and just doin it cause i could.
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      05-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StylePoints View Post
You want handling? Put on some KW coil overs + F&R Sway Bars and it will handle better than a stock M3 hands down.
Certainly it would not without adding equivalent or better tires. Even then I doubt it would. It would have less body roll but that is only one aspect of handling.
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      05-12-2012, 10:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Certainly it would not without adding equivalent or better tires. Even then I doubt it would. It would have less body roll but that is only one aspect of handling.
Yes you are correct. Coils+Sways+wheels&tires.
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      05-13-2012, 12:45 AM   #9
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Anyone who thinks springs/shocks, sway bars and tires are the only parts that contribute to the handling of a vehicle are seriously mistaken.

There is a reason why the M3 shares nothing in it's suspension save two trailing links in the rear. As Swamp mentioned above, geometry, leverage, bushings, mounts, etc have a very large effect on how a chassis responds and handles.
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      05-13-2012, 03:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Anyone who thinks springs/shocks, sway bars and tires are the only parts that contribute to the handling of a vehicle are seriously mistaken.

There is a reason why the M3 shares nothing in it's suspension save two trailing links in the rear. As Swamp mentioned above, geometry, leverage, bushings, mounts, etc have a very large effect on how a chassis responds and handles.
I did not say those are the only parts. He asked a simple question, and I gave a simple answer. From a modified vs stock comparison in lateral gs and grip. Aftermarket upgrades will do the trick. Now if he wants best possible handling then yes get an M3 and then modify it. The m3 is a better platform to start with no matter what - no argument there.
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      05-14-2012, 07:04 AM   #11
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Thanks all!
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      05-14-2012, 09:26 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StylePoints View Post
I did not say those are the only parts. He asked a simple question, and I gave a simple answer. From a modified vs stock comparison in lateral gs and grip. Aftermarket upgrades will do the trick. Now if he wants best possible handling then yes get an M3 and then modify it. The m3 is a better platform to start with no matter what - no argument there.
Sorry but you did not give a simple answer, coil overs, sway bars, wheels and tires still won't make a 335 handle better than an M3, and honestly, unless some serious testing and setup is made to your aftermarket suspension parts they usually make cars handle worse.

If BMW could have, they would have just left the E90/92/93 chassis alone and changed only springs, shocks, sway bars, and wheels and tires to achieve the handling improvement for the M3. The R&D to re-engineerall of the components cost a lot of money, and if they could have achieved their goal with only a few parts they would have. All the time they spend on the ring with the M cars is for good reason, to test, re-engineer, re-test, re-engineer and so it goes on until they have every bushing, arm, link, etc. dialled in!
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      05-14-2012, 02:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Sorry but you did not give a simple answer, coil overs, sway bars, wheels and tires still won't make a 335 handle better than an M3, and honestly, unless some serious testing and setup is made to your aftermarket suspension parts they usually make cars handle worse.

If BMW could have, they would have just left the E90/92/93 chassis alone and changed only springs, shocks, sway bars, and wheels and tires to achieve the handling improvement for the M3. The R&D to re-engineerall of the components cost a lot of money, and if they could have achieved their goal with only a few parts they would have. All the time they spend on the ring with the M cars is for good reason, to test, re-engineer, re-test, re-engineer and so it goes on until they have every bushing, arm, link, etc. dialled in!

The M3 race cars share nothing in common with our M3. Their suspension is totally different. And are you bashing with actual time spent in a suspension modified car? Yes M3 has awesome balance stock, but theres plenty of room for improvement buddy.
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      05-14-2012, 07:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StylePoints View Post
The M3 race cars share nothing in common with our M3. Their suspension is totally different. And are you bashing with actual time spent in a suspension modified car? Yes M3 has awesome balance stock, but theres plenty of room for improvement buddy.
There is quite a difference between a race car and a car with coil overs and sway bars. Did you ever see the behind the scenes development that racing teams do???

P.S. Yes I have modified the suspension in many of my previous cars and I can tell you the result was not always better. I will agree that there is room the M3 for improvement but that improvement is not as simple as buying a set of coil overs and sway bars. Improvement comes from hours and hours of testing, adjustments/changes (to alignment specs and parts), more testing and so on and so fourth.
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      05-14-2012, 08:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post

Or... buy the base car and mod the piss out of it, typically making many things actually worse and then boast about how the base car can be made better than the M for less money...
LMFAO......Swamps the man......

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      05-14-2012, 08:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
There is quite a difference between a race car and a car with coil overs and sway bars. Did you ever see the behind the scenes development that racing teams do???

P.S. Yes I have modified the suspension in many of my previous cars and I can tell you the result was not always better. I will agree that there is room the M3 for improvement but that improvement is not as simple as buying a set of coil overs and sway bars. Improvement comes from hours and hours of testing, adjustments/changes (to alignment specs and parts), more testing and so on and so fourth.
Did I say install it in your garage by yourself and align it with some strings? No. Ofcourse a proper suspension takes fine tuning. Same can be said for engines. You don't just drop in an SC and off you go, you need tuning + softwares.

No a lot of you defend the M3. So do I. I drive one and love it. But the OP stated he was happy with his 335s power and wanted to know if it can handle like an M3. Now, obviously 335 has shortcomings of an M3, but he can get mods and be close to, if not better. Now that doesn't mean a 335 is better than an M3. M3 can get after market products too. Stop trying to make this a M3>335 thread. All I stated was hey, if you ilke your 335 and you like your power but want good handling (similar to that of an m3) you can start with KW coils + sway bars + wheels and tires. Fuk, he can get get $10,000 motons and get it properly dialed in and tear up an M3 handling wise.

Last edited by StylePoints; 05-14-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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      05-15-2012, 09:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fueledbymetal View Post
So I'm wondering how different or improved could the F80 M3 handling be compared to an F30 with the adaptive suspension?

Obviously nobody's driven an F80 yet, but I'm hoping some anecdotal evidence from the e90 M3 or an eduactaed guess can answer my question. TIA!
This is strictly my opinion, but I should think that the adaptive properties of the suspension are not germane to the matter of which performs better from a handling perspective. I do acknowledge that while today's M3 offers adaptive suspension whereas today's 335i does not, for the F30/F80 both will be adaptive. But this needn't be seen as a sign that the two newer generation cars will be closer by comparison in the handling department.

Consider, first off, that even an M3 without adaptive suspension (EDC) will easily out handle a stock 335i, even when the latter is optioned with the M Sport suspension. Secondly, keep in mind that adaptive suspension is by and large a tool to make modern automobiles more comfortable while requiring minimal compromise in the handling department. Although, on the other hand, I believe that an M3 today will in fact be slightly faster on the track with EDC when spec'd than without. However, just because you give a 335i that same technology, it does not mean you elevate it to M3 performance.

Disclaimer: I am not up to speed yet on the latest technology used by BMW for their adaptive suspension. Things have likely evolved markedly from the EDC used in the M3 which was developed years ago. That said, everything above still applies.
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      05-15-2012, 10:57 PM   #18
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NICE discussion up there. =)
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