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      02-19-2013, 01:19 PM   #45
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I'll take a F80 M3 xDrive with MT
Never ever say that!
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      02-19-2013, 01:20 PM   #46
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Glad RWD stays... dont care about MT
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      02-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeThirtyFiveI View Post
I'll take a F80 M3 xDrive with MT... please BMW.
Ill take the Dual Clutch version please.

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Originally Posted by Mr Gunfun View Post
Never ever say that!
Why? Some of us would love the power and handling AND be able to drive it year round.
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      02-19-2013, 01:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW View Post
AWD vs RWD

This guy has no idea what he is talking about period.

Reason is if future generations of M5/M6 increases torque to keep in with the competition than BMW has no choice but put AWD on the cars. These cars already put out crazy torque number and to put more torque in future models to keep up with the competition without AWD BMW M5/M6 will either just spin it's wheels or have tires as wide as the car, or just spin it's tires while the competition drives away. Also the market is asking for AWD as we can see with Audi's increasing sales and AMG adding AWD.
Also to say AWD cars can't handle is retarded as the GT-R has supercar performance with AWD.
The M3 models are still ok with RWD because the torque and power is low enough that you can get traction.
I don't really think the market is asking for AWD per se...it's just giving to them...everyone knows to get an Audi you have no choice but to get Quattro and most likely they buy Audis because Audis are cool and in style now.
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      02-19-2013, 01:35 PM   #49
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Don't forget people: this is all PR. There's no reason to believe that this even honestly represents their current thinking, much less what their thinking will be in 1 or 2 years.

Case in point: I remember about 5 years ago reading a very similar short interview with a BMW executive about the direction that their cars would be taking. BMW was extremely quick to point out that they believed that all forced induction engines were terrible and that they would never offer them extensiely. They claimed that turbocharged engines only add torque, not very much power, and that more torque with about the same power just means that you need a heavier driveline, heavier axles, heavier brakes, and in the end, heavier everything, making the car a poorer handler without making it faster in an enthusiast driving scenarios.

What they said at the time was and still is true. But how did that go for us? You can't even purchase a naturally aspirated engine from BMW anymore.

Same thing will go for AWD. Porsche and Audi have always offered their M5 competitor in AWD only, and MB looks to be heading that way as well. And there is some sense to it when these cars are putting out 600+hp real world figures. How long after the RS6, Panamera Turbo S, and E63, all with AWD, start leaving the M5 last place in the comparison tests? How long after that until BMW starts offering a version of the M5 with AWD? And when the take rate on the AWD M5 is 80%+, how long does BMW continue to offer RWD?

I'm not even saying its a bad thing. Yeah it will negatively effect handling, but when you have a 600+ hp engine in a FR layout large sedan, you'll almost certainly be faster around any track with the extra traction of 2 more drive wheels than you will be relying on the marginally superior dynamics of the RWD car.
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      02-19-2013, 01:43 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 7 4 7
RWD + M/T for life
+1
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      02-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #51
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Pretty hypocritical statement from M. They claim they are sticking with RWD because it is better for steering response, weight, etc. but they move to Turbos (even though there are many advantages of NA engines) because of fuel economy (not a concern for most M purchasers), and they will stick with manual gearboxes as long as there is a demand.... well there is a demand for AWD but that isn't enough of a reason.

I think we all know, M makes corporate level decisions and justifies them with these canned responses. It's unfortunate but reality. Still won't stop me from buying M cars... but may keep me from buying new as the older models are so good. AWD would sway me to new.
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      02-19-2013, 01:55 PM   #52
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From my perspective, DCT has been more rare. Almost every used E9x M3 I have seen has been manual. I love manual especially on turbo cars and P-cars.

If you have driven a 335is or 1M there is hella wheel spin and they eat tires. E9x M3 spins out too even though I would say the extra weight w the m diff keeps them down. And then the new F10Ms yeah they eat them as well.

Nonetheless, I expect the new M3/4 to eat back tires at alarming rate. And if BMW gives them weird sizes then BMW can make a lot of money from them.

HP sales cars, but toque eats tires.
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      02-19-2013, 02:05 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
I don't really think the market is asking for AWD per se...it's just giving to them...everyone knows to get an Audi you have no choice but to get Quattro and most likely they buy Audis because Audis are cool and in style now.
I think you are absolutely wrong in that the market is not asking for AWD.
Let's look at the facts.

1. Audi sales are increasing = Quattro, Sales of Audi has been on the rise for over 5+years worldwide so it isn't because it is cool and in style now.
2. Ferrari, AMG and other high power/Torque cars are starting to hop onto the AWD be it either for traction or market demand
3. Willing to bet that Xdrive sales will beat RWD sales shortly if not already.
4. You can't give to the market AWD if they aren't asking for it, basics of marketing my friend as doing what you are saying is a money losing business model.
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      02-19-2013, 02:21 PM   #54
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      02-19-2013, 02:22 PM   #55
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this will be turn into a RWD vs. AWD $hit fest soon...I'll start, especially after returning an xDrive Loaner vehicle...

xDrive: for DD
RWD: for track
....
xDrive: drag strip
RWD: road racing

:-)
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      02-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #56
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The M Performance brand offers customers features considered taboo for the BMW M brand such as Diesel and xDrive.
As long as your car is equipped with good winter tyres then you will have substantial traction , many countries should follow Germany and make them compulsory for winter.
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      02-19-2013, 02:27 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW
AWD vs RWD

This guy has no idea what he is talking about period.

Reason is if future generations of M5/M6 increases torque to keep in with the competition than BMW has no choice but put AWD on the cars. These cars already put out crazy torque number and to put more torque in future models to keep up with the competition without AWD BMW M5/M6 will either just spin it's wheels or have tires as wide as the car, or just spin it's tires while the competition drives away. Also the market is asking for AWD as we can see with Audi's increasing sales and AMG adding AWD.
Also to say AWD cars can't handle is retarded as the GT-R has supercar performance with AWD.
The M3 models are still ok with RWD because the torque and power is low enough that you can get traction.
Variable width tires using pockets in the sidewalls that inflate outward in response to DSC-sensor driven slip angles and steering inputs. For launches, pockets on both sides of each tire inflate slick-compound rubber. In corners, the outside edge of the outside tire inflates and the inside edge of the inside tire inflates. The inside front tire is inflated on both sides. Off camber corners are accommodated using camber sensors. At speeds above 100 mph (autobahn cruising), the inside edges of the tires inflate automatically to increase high speed stability.

This mitigates spinning tires on launch and also keeps the car from plowing when there is too much grip in the rear.
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      02-19-2013, 02:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The M Performance brand offers customers features considered taboo for the BMW M brand such as Diesel and xDrive.
As long as your car is equipped with good winter tyres then you will have substantial traction , many countries should follow Germany and make them compulsory for winter.
The taboos are fleeting. Forced induction was one of them.
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      02-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #59
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Sorry if I sound a bit harsh. But they talk out both sides of their ass.

They continue to water down the M-brand. They now put M badges all over non-M cars. They start producing big M suvs. They completely phase out high revving M engines.

Oh...but now we are saving the M-philosophy by not producing AWD M-cars. Honestly just shut up.
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      02-19-2013, 02:45 PM   #60
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really? when shopping around in the tri-state 80% of the M3's were manual. I had to look very hard to find a DCT. I really hope the manual lives on forever.
HA! I wish, here in canada, its like 10:1 in favour or DCT. I suspect there isn't a manual M3 on a bmw lot in canada anywhere
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      02-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The M Performance brand offers customers features considered taboo for the BMW M brand such as Diesel and xDrive.
As long as your car is equipped with good winter tyres then you will have substantial traction , many countries should follow Germany and make them compulsory for winter.
Not many people here understands the meaning of the M Performance vehicles Scott.
I am liking what the current M brand is doing, keep the M cars classic and pure (rear wheel drive, MT or DCT)
Turbocharging? As long as it saves gas it doesn't matter to me.
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      02-19-2013, 03:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 4 7
RWD + M/T for life
+1.

Cheers
Robin
+2
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      02-19-2013, 03:12 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 4 7
RWD + M/T for life
+1.

Cheers
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+2
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      02-19-2013, 03:13 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
AWD vs. RWD.

Maybe not for the M3 and M4 but it's not going to be surprising when the M5, M6 (and it's variants) get both a RWD/AWD or just an AWD option. While the F10 M5 does a pretty good job (0-60 in 3.7 seconds in some tests) at handling all that power, eventually BMW will have to move to an AWD setup when they start approaching 600HP+. When that time comes, the forum is going to get a hell of a lot interesting with the RWD vs. AWD debate.
I completely agree!!
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      02-19-2013, 04:04 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
He specifically said you can NEVER expect this to happen.

If you want AWD with an M badge, get an X5 or X6.
You can anticipate it, now that MB is going with AMG with 4matic and sales increasing for Audi.

Give it time...any one will change when it comes to $$$
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      02-19-2013, 04:08 PM   #66
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Has anyone seen what is Audi has done with their S8? NO launch control, just plain traction and power to the ground through AWD and with all that it will keep up with the M5. I can't imagine what the M5 would do with the right xDrive system.

Auto Spies / Motor Trend: http://www.autospies.com/news/Motor-...Seconds-73049/

Bimmerpost reference: http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=766416
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