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      04-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #1
BigMacSmallFries
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F80 M3 Engine Speculation

Just wanted to share some info.

The next gen F80 M3 will have a triple turbo setup with an I6 configuration. The triple turbo will be a combination of conventional turbos and introduce the world's first electrical turbos in a car as well.

What we don't know is whether it will be one small electric turbo combined with a conventional twin turbo setup, or if it's going to be a twin electrical turbo setup with one large conventional turbocharger.

This is significant because it will be the first car to completely eliminate turbo lag from turbo charged engines. The electric turbos spool up instantaneously just above idling rpms providing immediate torque. It other words, we could possibly see maximum torque developed around 1000rpm. This would give the illusion of driving a far more powerful car while puttering around town at low rpms. The torque curve from 800-2000rpm could very well be putting out as much power as a conventional naturally aspirated engine in the vicinity of 600hp. This would give the the feeling of driving a much more powerful engine at very low RPMs which is amazing in traffic.

If we have this electric turbo with a conventional twin turbo setup, we could see remapping easily boosting the 440-450hp the F80 M3 will have to the 500-530hp range.

The S65 V8 is amazing, but once we're given the exact details, I don't think M3 drivers will hesitate jumping to the next car. Minus the exhaust note, the new engine will vastly outperform our current M3s.

Don't ask where I got the information from, that I can't disclose.

Enjoy!

Last edited by BigMacSmallFries; 04-21-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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      04-21-2013, 02:19 PM   #2
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^ Perhaps you can post some other past predictions you have made that will give you credibility above and beyond random internet noise (and repeating prior rumors as well...)? Please don't mistake my skepticism for being rude. There is nothing particularly novel in this information.
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      04-21-2013, 02:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
^ Perhaps you can post some other past predictions you have made that will give you credibility above and beyond random internet noise (and repeating prior rumors as well...)? Please don't mistake my skepticism for being rude. There is nothing particularly novel in this information.
Nope, no past credibility for you to decide how much of this to believe.

Details could be released at the M Festival in May.
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      04-21-2013, 02:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
^ Perhaps you can post some other past predictions you have made that will give you credibility above and beyond random internet noise (and repeating prior rumors as well...)? Please don't mistake my skepticism for being rude. There is nothing particularly novel in this information.
I don't get your skepticism. The lastest rumors were twin-turbo and not tripple turbo. And why should the OP have any past predictions? I also don't get the purpose of pretending to have any info. Now if the OP is wrong, and the M3 gets a V6 I wouldn't blame him. But I do believe he is right. Such an engine would justify the choice of an I6 over a V6. But a pimped N54? To hell with that.
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      04-21-2013, 04:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I don't get your skepticism. The lastest rumors were twin-turbo and not tripple turbo. And why should the OP have any past predictions? I also don't get the purpose of pretending to have any info. Now if the OP is wrong, and the M3 gets a V6 I wouldn't blame him. But I do believe he is right. Such an engine would justify the choice of an I6 over a V6. But a pimped N54? To hell with that.
Hey bud, the higher ups already confirmed the I6. Swamp2 and I are referring to the turbocharging of the engine. There is no debate regarding the engine being I6. There is no chance of a v6.
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      04-22-2013, 08:00 AM   #6
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There has already been plenty of rumor about an electric turbo so your information may very well be accurate.

It does strike me as a bit strange that you would get confirmation somehow of an electric turbo setup with three turbos, but not details of how many of each type. Color me a bit skeptical. But don't take it to heart, skepticism is a healthy component of speculative discussion.

A true cynic may even suggest that you have no source and instead started this thread in an effort to draw out the truth, or at least to spark a debate with an attempt to maximize exposure. Of course, I am not that cynical in this particular instance, so I will not assert that to be the case. On the other hand, if others were to assert something like that, I may not necessarily disagree with them either.

Hopefully we know more soon.
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      04-22-2013, 08:09 AM   #7
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Oh, and for the record, I don't think there is much rationale for a twin electric turbo setup to begin with. To me that would be somewhat like using twin superchargers. Why do it when you can just have one larger one? It's not like their are spooling issues to be concerned with.

Edit: I should add that another possibility is standard turbos with electric assist. In this case you have an electric motor drive the turbine at low engine RPM. This would probably make most sense from a materials perspective because it means you are not adding additional turbines and intake routing just for the electric component of the system. I suppose it is remotely possible they could use one such turbo like this along with another conventional one with no assist, in a sequential setup. But that seems unlikely. I would figure two assisted turbos of this type, if any. Anyway, the point is that possibilities like this obscure the issue, suggesting your original hypothesis does not really cover the problem space.
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      04-22-2013, 03:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
Details could be released at the M Festival in May.
Sorry, but you lost me at this.


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      04-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #9
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Sorry, but you lost me at this.


Best regards,
south
It is clear he got his information from somebody at BMW. BMW social workers (a.k.a SCOTT) always talked about some special "reveals" at the M Festival: M3 CLS, X6 M CRT, 1M, M5, M6, but that has never happend. That was only to attract people/fans to the festival.
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      04-22-2013, 05:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
If we have this electric turbo with a conventional twin turbo setup, we could see remapping easily boosting the 440-450hp the F80 M3 will have to the 500-530hp range.
I'm a bit confused here,
I thought it's been official that F80 M3 was confirmed to be 414hp, but more tq than the E9X M3's

from what I know, that was public was that it shares same motor as the current 335 but different piston , pulley and etc
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      04-22-2013, 05:26 PM   #11
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I'm a bit confused here,
I thought it's been official that F80 M3 was confirmed to be 414hp, but more tq than the E9X M3's

from what I know, that was public was that it shares same motor as the current 335 but different piston , pulley and etc
No, S55 is based on N54 and has only 10% of parts in common.

I don't what its redline will be but under 7.5K it will be disappointing.
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      04-22-2013, 06:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
Nope, no past credibility for you to decide how much of this to believe.
Fine, then you are doing nothing but rehashing very old rumors and the credibility of the information is the same as it was before your post. Therefore, in short, your post is fairly worthless. Sorry, again, not to be mean, but I call it like I see it.
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      04-22-2013, 10:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Fine, then you are doing nothing but rehashing very old rumors and the credibility of the information is the same as it was before your post. Therefore, in short, your post is fairly worthless. Sorry, again, not to be mean, but I call it like I see it.
Read in between the lines... Just this one time...
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      04-23-2013, 12:31 AM   #14
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I like what you are saying BMSF. Before those were only rumors, now it appears to be reality. It gives some hope the for the I6 which would be a fail if it just were a pimped N54 biturbo. Where is the rumored M5 KERS? Ruumors are one thing, leakes are another thing.
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      04-23-2013, 02:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
Just wanted to share some info.

The next gen F80 M3 will have a triple turbo setup with an I6 configuration. The triple turbo will be a combination of conventional turbos and introduce the world's first electrical turbos in a car as well.

What we don't know is whether it will be one small electric turbo combined with a conventional twin turbo setup, or if it's going to be a twin electrical turbo setup with one large conventional turbocharger.

This is significant because it will be the first car to completely eliminate turbo lag from turbo charged engines. The electric turbos spool up instantaneously just above idling rpms providing immediate torque. It other words, we could possibly see maximum torque developed around 1000rpm. This would give the illusion of driving a far more powerful car while puttering around town at low rpms. The torque curve from 800-2000rpm could very well be putting out as much power as a conventional naturally aspirated engine in the vicinity of 600hp. This would give the the feeling of driving a much more powerful engine at very low RPMs which is amazing in traffic.

If we have this electric turbo with a conventional twin turbo setup, we could see remapping easily boosting the 440-450hp the F80 M3 will have to the 500-530hp range.

The S65 V8 is amazing, but once we're given the exact details, I don't think M3 drivers will hesitate jumping to the next car. Minus the exhaust note, the new engine will vastly outperform our current M3s.

Don't ask where I got the information from, that I can't disclose.

Enjoy!
I wouldn't be surprised if it was one small electric turbo paired with a slightly larger exhaust driven turbo. From the engine bay pics (although not completely confirmed), there are 2 inlet ducts to the W2AIC. I am also willing to bet the conventional turbo will be moderately sized to keep the torque curve flat as possible (less lag and peakiness, or so to speak). Boost up, higher compression, more aggressive cams, etc. etc. will probably be the driving factors for the higher power output (a la n63 vs s63).

I've driven the s65 e90 m3, and the engine is amazing. With the flat torque curve, it pulls across the board, and with its linear response and predictable behavior, it's a blast to drive. I am hoping the new engine will keep its characteristics very similar, if not the same, to the s65.
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      04-23-2013, 02:48 AM   #16
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i refuse to hear a 6 cylinder under my hood for that price. unless its a GTR or Porsche
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      04-23-2013, 03:44 AM   #17
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I doubt any expensive new technology -that's one trend you can bet on
If it felt like 600hp below 2k rpm it would be called the M9 and cost USD200k+ ..
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      04-23-2013, 05:37 AM   #18
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i refuse to hear a 6 cylinder under my hood for that price. unless its a GTR or Porsche
LOL
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      04-23-2013, 05:52 AM   #19
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I do not think the f8x gets an turbocharged engine with an additional electric turbo (electric compressor), there are some things that are probably messed up in the world of forums.

I assume that the M3/M4 will have an adapted mechanical TriTurbosystem from the N57S, in which possibly the first small turbo, which is responsible for the low rpms, is supported by an directly on the shaft of the turbo acting electric motor.
If this - patented by BMW - technology is mature and stable at time of series production, it could close the turbo lag completely.

One or more electrical compressors are rather unlikely to me, because those parts rather have the reputation of cheap aftermarket tuning and BMW's patent is clearly more effective to eliminate turbo lag

Greets Uli_HH
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      04-23-2013, 06:38 AM   #20
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No, S55 is based on N54...
The S55 will almost surely have Valvetronic like the N55 (and every other BMW gasoline engine from now on in all likelihood). The induction system will differ from both the N55 and N54, possibly by employing multiple multi-scroll turbochargers like an S63/S63Tu (which use two twin-scrolls).

Quote:
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I like what you are saying BMSF. Before those were only rumors, now it appears to be reality.
Simply making assertions about the source of information does not improve its legitimacy. Come now, you are smarter than that Levi. Plenty of rumors begin and gain momentum under the same circumstances and yet never pan out.

Quote:
It gives some hope the for the I6 which would be a fail if it just were a pimped N54 biturbo.
It will not be a "pimped up N54" regardless of whether it has some type of electrically-assisted forced induction or not. In addition to using a more advanced valve-train than the N54 as I said above, we should expect a different induction and turbo setup.
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      04-23-2013, 04:17 PM   #21
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The OP is wrong.

I have sources saying the upcoming M3 is a V12 with 3 turbos.

I have my sources, don't ask me who they are, I cannot disclose them.

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      04-23-2013, 05:02 PM   #22
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V12 tri-turbo...

An all new M Performance built 3.2L I6 (E46 heritage displacement) w/valvetronic w/ two twin-scroll turbos will EASILY put out 415hp (really ~450hp*) with minimal or M5 comparable turbo lag...I don't think any e-assist would be needed....

*M5 specs say 560hp, Edmunds.com dynoed a stock M5 @ 514whp or ~604hp (15%), ~8% understatement. If M3 is quoted @ 415hp x 1.08 = 448hp
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