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      05-21-2013, 04:11 AM   #1
Ezio
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People who seem to be happy with the new F80 M3 / F82 M4 engine direction

I have noticed something while on this forum. while this is not the case for every person. It seems like a lot of people who are happy with the new I6 M3/M4 engine are non e9x M3 owners.

I feel the S65 engine is great in terms of having special characteristics. The S65 shares more characteristics with a engine found under the hood of a car with a "Dancing horse" badge on it, than it does to BMW engines in general.

While i know the new M3/M4 engine will most likely be better on Gas, and more powerful. Its going to be rather dull when coming from a S65. Of course i am making assumptions based off a car that i have never driven. but they are assumptions that only people driving e9x m3s are making.

This is a honest question, for the people who are sold on the new M direction. Have you ever driven a e9x M3 before and really got a feel for the car?
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      05-21-2013, 06:38 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
I have noticed something while on this forum. while this is not the case for every person. It seems like a lot of people who are happy with the new I6 M3/M4 engine are non e9x M3 owners.

I feel the S65 engine is great in terms of having special characteristics. The S65 shares more characteristics with a engine found under the hood of a car with a "Dancing horse" badge on it, than it does to BMW engines in general.

While i know the new M3/M4 engine will most likely be better on Gas, and more powerful. Its going to be rather dull when coming from a S65. Of course i am making assumptions based off a car that i have never driven. but they are assumptions that only people driving e9x m3s are making.

This is a honest question, for the people who are sold on the new M direction. Have you ever driven a e9x M3 before and really got a feel for the car?
M3 is more expensive, but many who could afford the other one, have not bought it because they prefer the turbocharged engine. Now M3/M4 will sell like never, and that is all BMW wants. They don't care about the minority. But anyway it is over. Get the 911 before it goes to turbocharged Flat4 engines. Otherwise the only think left will be the 911 GT3.
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      05-21-2013, 11:01 AM   #3
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I am anticipating the new M3 with high hopes, and I have driven the e9X M3 a few times.
Two things that I have raised eyebrow on....
1. Throttle response, with multiple turbos. dread any hint of turbo lag.
2. Revs to redline. if it tops out at 7000, I will be bummed.

I have a 330i sport MT, M54; a Z4M with S54; and have driven an e90 sedan M3 MT, and DCT sedan, plus an e92 Coupe M3 MT. And must say the V8 sings, but I had to wring it out (happily). I felt like a hooligan behind the wheel. up to about 70 as I recall in second gear. The linear throttle response and willingness of the engine at all rpms belies the ~3700 lbs.
Just to hear the roaring, soaring revs close to 8000, it was great fun. I preferred the feel of the coupe.
I then got back into my 330i (Dinan 3, UUC TSE3) and was expecting to be depressed. To my surprise the throttle response in city driving was similar, but obviously lacking the power at the higher revs. The 3200 pounds of the e46 helps it here, not to mention the Dinan stuff.
I have debated to no end, to snap up the S65 or .... wait....
My wife has been patient as I mull it over. Thing is, I don't want to part with the z4M or the E46. First world problems for sure.
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      05-21-2013, 11:21 AM   #4
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It's simply completely different. I love N/A engines and am a bit sad about those going to die. On the other hand I am often driving my father's 1M and also did on the track. The engine is different, but it's a superb thing as well. It sounds, it revs, even if not as high as an N/A, it responds pretty quick. It is a change that won't be too bad as you can use the power over a broader rev range. I prefer naturally aspirated engines for the delivery as you can put the hammer down mid-corner when you're tracking, with a turbo it's a different thing. In the end, it will be a brilliant car if you ask me. Engines change, the M spirit does not. I hope so, at least. It's a similar jump as it was from an inline engine to a V.
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      05-21-2013, 05:32 PM   #5
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I can understand. Having driven several E9X M3's the engine is superb. Really it belongs in the same class as a Mezger 911, Ferrari's V8's, etc. It really is an engine for the ages. Not sure it approaches the Paul Roche V12 in the Macca F1 but you get the point. The engine is intoxicating. It dominates the experience of the car. It truly is a benchmark and a high water point.

Unfortunately, blame the government, economy, social pressures, whatever, the money is not in the manufacturers to make such a car any more. Even the GT3 is bowing to the pressure, EPS, PDK only, etc. It, like the F80 M3, will probably be a very special car, but not the same as that stonking power plant.

I can see both sides of the fence on this one. I'm sad to lose the E9X M3. I look forward to the F80 and also knowing I can find a nice CPO E9X should the F80 not be quite the tool the E9X is.
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      05-29-2013, 02:01 PM   #6
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All I care about is if new M cars will lose some weight and have little more torque down low. I'm over this NA thing as I'm getting older and dont want to get attention on the road while reving the crap out of the engine to get it going
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      05-29-2013, 04:33 PM   #7
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Give me more power and torque and I don't care what engine it is.

The e92 M3 is just underpowered in daily driving (and on tight tracks) due to the lower torque. I drove an e92 M3 and while everything was perfect in terms of suspension and steering, the engine was a letdown for me (I have a tuned 335i). Also, the V8 M3 engine doesn't sound especially good, it is rather dull, faint and uncharacteristic to a V8 sound. Listen to an AMG or Porsche engine, even a V6 or an inline 6, and they sound awesome. Why can't BMW do this ?

The new M3 engine will fix this, and I think that it may even sound better, from the spy videos. It will even have a "close to 8000RPM redline" as I read lately. I will speculate a 7800RPM redline.

Sorry, but there is nothing in the S65 V8 engine that impresses me.
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      05-29-2013, 06:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Give me more power and torque and I don't care what engine it is.

The e92 M3 is just underpowered in daily driving (and on tight tracks) due to the lower torque. I drove an e92 M3 and while everything was perfect in terms of suspension and steering, the engine was a letdown for me (I have a tuned 335i). Also, the V8 M3 engine doesn't sound especially good, it is rather dull, faint and uncharacteristic to a V8 sound. Listen to an AMG or Porsche engine, even a V6 or an inline 6, and they sound awesome. Why can't BMW do this ?

The new M3 engine will fix this, and I think that it may even sound better, from the spy videos. It will even have a "close to 8000RPM redline" as I read lately. I will speculate a 7800RPM redline.

Sorry, but there is nothing in the S65 V8 engine that impresses me.
Says the guy with the 335i

Your post is just proving the OP's point

Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-29-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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      05-29-2013, 08:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Give me more power and torque and I don't care what engine it is.

The e92 M3 is just underpowered in daily driving (and on tight tracks) due to the lower torque. I drove an e92 M3 and while everything was perfect in terms of suspension and steering, the engine was a letdown for me (I have a tuned 335i). Also, the V8 M3 engine doesn't sound especially good, it is rather dull, faint and uncharacteristic to a V8 sound. Listen to an AMG or Porsche engine, even a V6 or an inline 6, and they sound awesome. Why can't BMW do this ?

The new M3 engine will fix this, and I think that it may even sound better, from the spy videos. It will even have a "close to 8000RPM redline" as I read lately. I will speculate a 7800RPM redline.

Sorry, but there is nothing in the S65 V8 engine that impresses me.
You need some q-tips to clean out your ears my friend.
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      05-29-2013, 09:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Sorry, but there is nothing in the S65 V8 engine that impresses me.
Wow. I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've heard anyone say that.

For 335 owners or e46 m3 owners it's all upside. More hp/torque. Same 6.

For e9x m3 owners it's a bit of a let down. But the v8 was really an anomaly. Very surprising choice for the m3 and it will forever be that anomaly.

Even though it will lose that exotic v8, the next m3/4 is going to be a beast. Most people will forgive BMW for going turbo when the new m3 rips it up. And the e9x m3 will become a classic for that special engine...
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      05-29-2013, 09:38 PM   #11
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I have a counter question.
Have any of the E9X M3 owners that don't like the change driven an E46 M3?




The inline six is a great configuration. I don't understand the ignorance of some people. If anything the inline six has a much more sporting history than V8's. Turbos worry me more than the switch to an inline 6.
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      05-29-2013, 10:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
I have a counter question.
Have any of the E9X M3 owners that don't like the change driven an E46 M3?




The inline six is a great configuration. I don't understand the ignorance of some people. If anything the inline six has a much more sporting history than V8's. Turbos worry me more than the switch to an inline 6.
I have actually owned an E46 M3 for seven years and now into my fifth year of my E92. Really loved/love both cars

I don't mind the switch back to an I6 nor the adoption of turbos. A long as ///M brews something special with the engine, I am good with it .

I am just a bit worried that we'll simply get a lightly souped up version of the bread and butter engines like we saw on the 1M or M5/M6/X5M/X6M.

The latest rumours suggest otherwise though , so I am keeping my hopes up
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      05-29-2013, 10:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I am just a bit worried that we'll simply get a lightly souped up version of the bread and butter engines like we saw on the 1M or M5/M6/X5M/X6M.
Yeah, that was one of my concerns (just a tune and slight mechanical differences). But as you said the 8k rumors tend to shy away from that notion.

The thing I am worried about most (and this will sound weird to many people) is all of the low down torque this car will have. I am worried it will change the character of the car.
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      05-29-2013, 10:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
The thing I am worried about most (and this will sound weird to many people) is all of the low down torque this car will have. I am worried it will change the character of the car.
This is a good point. An element I have always appreciated of ///M cars is the smooth power delivery that made the cars easy to handle and control. Hopefully they will be able to maintain that characteristic.
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      05-29-2013, 10:38 PM   #15
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While I was in college, all I would think about was getting an E92 m3. I was and still am absolutely obsessed with how the S65 sounds. Well I graduated a few years back and realized life shouldn't be about working FOR my car so I found a sweet deal on a e92 335is.

Being someone who despised turbo engines (just didn't seem to have that "wow" factor that NA does) I was PLEASENTLY surprised with the N54 engine. The low end torque, and pull from ~3k rpm is just astonishing. I for one am turned on to the forced induction lingerie that BMW is sporting. The m4 is going to win everyone's vote. Especially when the ZCP drops down the line.

Lets not forget, a lot of the community was afraid of the m3, "losing its character" w the V8. Now look at everyone...
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      05-29-2013, 11:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
Give me more power and torque and I don't care what engine it is.

The e92 M3 is just underpowered in daily driving (and on tight tracks) due to the lower torque. I drove an e92 M3 and while everything was perfect in terms of suspension and steering, the engine was a letdown for me (I have a tuned 335i). Also, the V8 M3 engine doesn't sound especially good, it is rather dull, faint and uncharacteristic to a V8 sound. Listen to an AMG or Porsche engine, even a V6 or an inline 6, and they sound awesome. Why can't BMW do this ?

The new M3 engine will fix this, and I think that it may even sound better, from the spy videos. It will even have a "close to 8000RPM redline" as I read lately. I will speculate a 7800RPM redline.

Sorry, but there is nothing in the S65 V8 engine that impresses me.
If this is Kevin Levrone the bber, I thought ou were more of NSX lover than a M3 fan---although M3 was the title of your last bbing DVD

As far as the engine...think of this as a 993 Turbo GT2 on the cheap...and a potential moster when it comes to the tuning...we maybe seeing another turbo Inline 6 renaissance like we did with the Supra Turbo.
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      05-30-2013, 02:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
I have a counter question.
Have any of the E9X M3 owners that don't like the change driven an E46 M3?




The inline six is a great configuration. I don't understand the ignorance of some people. If anything the inline six has a much more sporting history than V8's. Turbos worry me more than the switch to an inline 6.
I don't think anyone is being ignorant. BMW has shown I6 configuration work very well. I was not talking about history of BMW engines. I know BMW is known more for I6 engines than V8s.
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      05-30-2013, 02:14 AM   #18
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thanks for the responses
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      05-30-2013, 02:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I don't think anyone is being ignorant. BMW has shown I6 configuration work very well. I was not talking about history of BMW engines. I know BMW is known more for I6 engines than V8s.
I wasn't talking about you really when I said ignorant. I am talking more about the people who want a V8 because its a V8. And dont like the inline 6 because it has six cylinders. You have laid out logical reasons as to why you prefer the S65. I can't argue with those. The S65 is a great, no, marvelous engine.
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      05-30-2013, 08:42 AM   #20
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V8 and some lazy rumbling Cadillac is burned on my eyes, cant get over it... I am not drive V8 M3, maybe I rent it someday when visiting Munchen, but it cannot be so amazing that I change my mind, I am driven M3 e36/e46 and M135, great cars and highrevving I6 belongs to Bmw and M3.
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      05-30-2013, 09:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holander View Post
V8 and some lazy rumbling Cadillac is burned on my eyes, cant get over it... I am not drive V8 M3, maybe I rent it someday when visiting Munchen, but it cannot be so amazing that I change my mind, I am driven M3 e36/e46 and M135, great cars and highrevving I6 belongs to Bmw and M3.



Yeah, Ferrari V8 reminds Cadillac...
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      05-30-2013, 09:28 AM   #22
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I think the 335i has more usable power on the roads and therefore some may find it haveing more pleasure to drive than the S65. I really didnt think anything special of the S65 until i had a full week with it. It really did take me that long to adjust!! lol. The drive is completely different and the biggest thing i noticed was that where the N54 was very usable, it gave me that wine and cheese feeling when trying to tear it up. it was too reserved and it felt as if i reached a certain point where it needed a rest. The S65 however, feels like a party that doesnt know when to stop climaxing throughout the night. Anyone know what I'm talking about??
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