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      07-12-2013, 09:05 PM   #45
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Why has it taken so long for BMW to pull the wraps on the M3? It's been 1 1/2 years since the current 3 series was unveiled. I thought the M versions always came a year after the the initial debut. Is BMW waiting to debut the M3/M4 side by side?
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      07-12-2013, 09:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
I doubt it, the E90 M3 got the E92's front end because the V8 wouldn't fit in the E90.
I don't think this is true. Having just one front bumper and headlight assembly for all M3s kept costs down.

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This time, there's no reason to believe that the turbocharged inline 6 wouldn't fit in the larger F30.
Moreover, this time around there is the Gran Coupe, and since the whole point of that car is to provide, at a price premium, the coupe's styling to those who want the practicality of a sedan, putting that same front end on the actual sedan too would seem to be a bad business move.
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      07-12-2013, 10:32 PM   #47
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For those of you complaining about 415 hp being too little to compete...

May I remind you of what made the original and legendary E30 M3 so special. Because it definitely wasn't the power.

Hopefully this video will remind you that the M division excels in chassis engineering:

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      07-12-2013, 11:25 PM   #48
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That's nice as!
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      07-12-2013, 11:51 PM   #49
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very nice addition to the sedan.
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      07-13-2013, 01:37 AM   #50
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Glad to hear that F80 M3 sedan will have a CF roof option.

Because that was one thing that was sure missing from E90 M3. Now BMW don't your dare put a crappy electric steering wheel without some serious redesign and reprograming of software.

All this double bubble CF will fall flat on its face if the steering feel/feedback is not great.
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      07-13-2013, 01:47 AM   #51
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Ill agree with the above about the M chassis and handling poise and braking but they should have added some power there besides the tq.

Their competitors are not as solid on the handling for sure, however, the AMG obliterates the M3 in power but the M keeps up through handling braking and poise but that power gap is growing and the advantage the M has over the rest is shrinking.

I'm surprised they didn't go to 3.3 or so liters with power around 450/460. 415 is a lot for a 3 liter I don't see tunes getting much more without really over working the engine.
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      07-13-2013, 03:08 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenu8187 View Post
I'm surprised they didn't go to 3.3 or so liters with power around 450/460. 415 is a lot for a 3 liter I don't see tunes getting much more without really over working the engine.
BMW says that their turbocharged engine optimize cylinder size is 0.5L. If they want more power they add boost, no bigger displacement needed on tc engine. Roughly, 3L turbocharged whit 1bar boost development same torque than 6L naturally aspirated and whit 1.5bar boost 7.5L NA engine.
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      07-13-2013, 04:12 AM   #53
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Cool the double bubble roof is also seen on the z4 years ago
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      07-13-2013, 05:20 AM   #54
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This might be the first M3(4) that is affordable to run.

Business and pleasure baby!

Edit...

Hold on... If this is a 6 pot 415hp... Why am i paying £60k?

No wonder the 335i is artificially limited.
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      07-13-2013, 06:20 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL530xit View Post
Why has it taken so long for BMW to pull the wraps on the M3? It's been 1 1/2 years since the current 3 series was unveiled. I thought the M versions always came a year after the the initial debut. Is BMW waiting to debut the M3/M4 side by side?
There have only been two generations of M3 sedan in the past (E36 and E90), and neither debuted before the M3 coupe of the same generation. For the E36, the sedan came much later than the coupe; for the E9x it was nearly the same time. With the models being split apart into the M3 and M4 there had been expectations we would see the sedan first, similar to how the M5 and M6 are handled. But now it appears that the sedan and coupe will arrive - or at the very least be revealed - at the same time (January 2014 - though official info could come sooner than that). Whether or not they will actually become available to purchase and start delivery at the same time as one another is currently unknown. It could be that the M4 is being revealed at the same time as the M3 to avoid people being confused, but it still could have a later market release. Giving the M3 sedan top billing first could leave people thinking that the coupe is gone completely or no longer a priority, which we know is not true - it's just being given a new identity.

By the way, M vehicles don't necessarily come as soon as one year after the series counterpart anyway. Obviously the E90 M3 did not come within a year of the E90 3 Series. In fact, if things were progressing on the traditional timeline, neither the M3 not M4 would be going on sale in the US until 2015 which is definitely not going to be the case, particularly for the M3. And if both are upon us mid next year, that will mean an earlier than expected release. And that will especially be true for the US where we typically see a delay from ROW. Here, we may well be looking at simultaneous world-wide (ok maybe not the entire world, but US and Europe anyway) availability along the lines of what we saw with the F30.
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      07-13-2013, 06:28 AM   #56
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I like the new roof design. It gives the car a much more unique flow and who doesn't love CF.

I think they are building a winner here.
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      07-13-2013, 09:11 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menez
For those of you complaining about 415 hp being too little to compete...

May I remind you of what made the original and legendary E30 M3 so special. Because it definitely wasn't the power.

Hopefully this video will remind you that the M division excels in chassis engineering:

You are absolutely right. And it would be great if that is what we could expect from them these days. Unfortunately, their traditional advantage in the handling, balance, and feel department are not alive and well in their current line up. Just look at comparisons between the new M5 and M6 vs it's competition. Even the non-M cars are not the clear favorites they used to be, and in fairness to the boys and girls at ///M, this is what they are given to work with as starting platforms. They are still great cars... But today they are almost as far from the core characteristics that made them great in the past as their competition. Almost as if there is an entirely different philosophy behind their engineering practices. Their latest offerings, be it from ///M or not, are not quite the Ultimate Driving Machine... So as much as I truly hope they get these cars right... I think this generation run of cars might be BMW's least competitive in history. Not sure if it has anything to do with an ex Mercedes guy now running their chassis development team (forget where I read this lol). I hope we get a great M3/4 as it really is the flag bearer of the M Division... But wouldn't be surprised if BMW races on next gen 3 and 5 series to fix the bloated heavy shits they've put on the road this time around.
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      07-13-2013, 09:21 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASELINE View Post
You are absolutely right. And it would be great if that is what we could expect from them these days. Unfortunately, their traditional advantage in the handling, balance, and feel department are not alive and well in their current line up. Just look at comparisons between the new M5 and M6 vs it's competition. Even the non-M cars are not the clear favorites they used to be, and in fairness to the boys and girls at ///M, this is what they are given to work with as starting platforms. They are still great cars... But today they are almost as far from the core characteristics that made them great in the past as their competition. Almost as if there is an entirely different philosophy behind their engineering practices. Their latest offerings, be it from ///M or not, are not quite the Ultimate Driving Machine... So as much as I truly hope they get these cars right... I think this generation run of cars might be BMW's least competitive in history. Not sure if it has anything to do with an ex Mercedes guy now running their chassis development team (forget where I read this lol). I hope we get a great M3/4 as it really is the flag bearer of the M Division... But wouldn't be surprised if BMW races on next gen 3 and 5 series to fix the bloated heavy shits they've put on the road this time around.
I agree with you totally. I went from reviewing every car magazine and journalist praising the current M3 and previous generation M5 as having surgical precision and being great cars to drive. Now, many reviews place BMW poorly and question the tag line "Ultimate Driving Machine". Someone from the new Lexus IS team was quoted as saying that they felt the IS is a better drivers car compared to the new 3 series and that BMW is becoming more of a touring car company. Normally this is laughable, but with all the bad reviews it is concerning.

The M division has to make the new M3/M4 outstanding and I believe they will, otherwise it will seriously hurt their image from a performance car standpoint (IMHO). I am betting on them and I will be purchasing the M4 as soon as it is available at my dealership. I do believe this to be a safe bet, but I will let you know as it goes!
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      07-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #59
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With the front end and carbon roof a la coupe... i think this may be the first 4 door BMW i would consider buying.
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      07-13-2013, 11:05 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMB
BMW makes great cars in every class (1 series, 3 series, etc.), but I feel that once an M is produced they need to make the vehicle that much more special. So things like a carbon fiber roof, nicer interior (maybe carbon fiber trim like the Audi's) should be in the top of the line, most expensive variant o(M cars). Otherwise, I don't think it is fair to have cheaper vehicles in the line with more features (i.e. kind of like the E92 M3 without having LED DRL's). You should get more for your money if you spend more. An 85k dollar M3/M4 should have these things like a carbon fiber roof.
Our 2011 X5m has those sorry yellow'ish angel eyes too, as the newer X5's and other BMW models have the bright white ones.. Wtf haha
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      07-13-2013, 01:02 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASELINE View Post
You are absolutely right. And it would be great if that is what we could expect from them these days. Unfortunately, their traditional advantage in the handling, balance, and feel department are not alive and well in their current line up. Just look at comparisons between the new M5 and M6 vs it's competition. Even the non-M cars are not the clear favorites they used to be, and in fairness to the boys and girls at ///M, this is what they are given to work with as starting platforms. They are still great cars... But today they are almost as far from the core characteristics that made them great in the past as their competition. Almost as if there is an entirely different philosophy behind their engineering practices. Their latest offerings, be it from ///M or not, are not quite the Ultimate Driving Machine... So as much as I truly hope they get these cars right... I think this generation run of cars might be BMW's least competitive in history. Not sure if it has anything to do with an ex Mercedes guy now running their chassis development team (forget where I read this lol). I hope we get a great M3/4 as it really is the flag bearer of the M Division... But wouldn't be surprised if BMW races on next gen 3 and 5 series to fix the bloated heavy shits they've put on the road this time around.
Yeah I tell people all the time that M is not as dominant a letter as it used to be. The first thing I thought when the new M5 and M6 came out was: "Are they trying to copy AMG with big power and big weight?" I was thoroughly disappointed, and I'm hoping the M Division realizes how far they have strayed from what has made them successful.

However, this article I read today gives me some hope:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/b...upe-2013-07-12

Last edited by Menez; 07-13-2013 at 01:23 PM.
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      07-13-2013, 01:14 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TROY Fotografie
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMB
BMW makes great cars in every class (1 series, 3 series, etc.), but I feel that once an M is produced they need to make the vehicle that much more special. So things like a carbon fiber roof, nicer interior (maybe carbon fiber trim like the Audi's) should be in the top of the line, most expensive variant o(M cars). Otherwise, I don't think it is fair to have cheaper vehicles in the line with more features (i.e. kind of like the E92 M3 without having LED DRL's). You should get more for your money if you spend more. An 85k dollar M3/M4 should have these things like a carbon fiber roof.
Our 2011 X5m has those sorry yellow'ish angel eyes too, as the newer X5's and other BMW models have the bright white ones.. Wtf haha
That does suck! When you go X5M you should always get the latest tech and innovation especially if everything else in the X5 line up went LCI. It's the alpha dog of the group!
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      07-13-2013, 02:36 PM   #63
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My 335is had the white LED coronas and they looked neat at night and what not and felt lux but it didn't make up for the lack of connection I have with the E9x M3. I think BMW needed to have that one item of profit just like the latest gen F10 doesn't have the side bolster inflation. I think with the M it is more function over form. Does anyone know the profit margin of the equivalent 328/335i/M3?

With the future in mind, autonomous cars and automated maglev may be the predominant transportation. We may have no choice one day. So I can see BMW posturing to meet governmental fuel mileage guidelines and then eventually petrol/diesel will be banned. So if have to be driven/tranported everywhere why not have the most luxurious soft cozy experience if the control is out of our hands. Until then I think BMW needs to keep a performance oriented mindset and delivery the best street to track car they can. I have a feeling they want to become more like Volkswagen and just seek as much profitiability as possible. I can see one day that only the ultra rich will be able to go to racetracks and utilize gasoline. Start stocking up now.

But yeah, M and upper tier cars should have all the bells and whistles unless they add on too much weight. So I am thinking the headlight washers and LED corona rings significantly affected the balance and weight.
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      07-13-2013, 02:42 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
There have only been two generations of M3 sedan in the past (E36 and E90), and neither debuted before the M3 coupe of the same generation. For the E36, the sedan came much later than the coupe; for the E9x it was nearly the same time. With the models being split apart into the M3 and M4 there had been expectations we would see the sedan first, similar to how the M5 and M6 are handled. But now it appears that the sedan and coupe will arrive - or at the very least be revealed - at the same time (January 2014 - though official info could come sooner than that). Whether or not they will actually become available to purchase and start delivery at the same time as one another is currently unknown. It could be that the M4 is being revealed at the same time as the M3 to avoid people being confused, but it still could have a later market release. Giving the M3 sedan top billing first could leave people thinking that the coupe is gone completely or no longer a priority, which we know is not true - it's just being given a new identity.

By the way, M vehicles don't necessarily come as soon as one year after the series counterpart anyway. Obviously the E90 M3 did not come within a year of the E90 3 Series. In fact, if things were progressing on the traditional timeline, neither the M3 not M4 would be going on sale in the US until 2015 which is definitely not going to be the case, particularly for the M3. And if both are upon us mid next year, that will mean an earlier than expected release. And that will especially be true for the US where we typically see a delay from ROW. Here, we may well be looking at simultaneous world-wide (ok maybe not the entire world, but US and Europe anyway) availability along the lines of what we saw with the F30.
Thanks for that!
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      07-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #65
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man, i wish the non-M 3 series cars could still have the flared wheel wells like the e46 generation. since the e90 gen, it has been just near flat, and unaggressive 'non-sportssedan' looking for me.
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      07-13-2013, 03:17 PM   #66
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WTF is with the Dumbo style Wing Mirrors ?? Have they decided to fit air brakes to the doors all of a sudden?
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