BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-26-2013, 11:20 AM   #1
Jason
Administrator
Jason's Avatar
United_States
6694
Rep
16,676
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

BMW M3 M4 RPM Redline Visual, Finally

BIMMERPOST NEWS
BMW M3 M4 RPM Redline Visual, Finally
295
COMMENTS

We've now had confirmation of the s55 engine's sightly above 7500 RPM redline via the official released specs, but seeing as how the tachometer and redline were ever elusive all these months and years of spy photos, we're happy to finally share with you images of the M3/M4's redline.

Though the actual redline starts at the 7500 mark, expect the rev limiter to kick in a bit after that.

Name:  f80-f82-redline.jpg
Views: 36749
Size:  109.5 KB

Name:  f80-f82-redline1.jpg
Views: 31868
Size:  106.7 KB

Dyno Plot For Reference.

Name:  M3-M4_Engine_3_Technical_Data.jpg
Views: 30095
Size:  70.3 KB

Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 11:43 AM   #2
solstice
Colonel
46
Rep
2,561
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Thanks!

With that picture combined with the Dyno chart I think it's safe to say that this engine will act like a typical FI engine in terms of power delivery across the rev band.

With a 7500 rpm redline it looks from the dyno chart that plots the S65 on it as well that the power plateau should be around 5500 rpm. I.e when power stops building and maintain hp until redline. The quick run to peak hp and the square tq curve will make for a very fat midrange but the car will not be very exciting to rev past 5500 - 6000 rpm. The ferocious pull to redline from the S65 will not be there.

I.e much more S63TU than S65 as expected. No surprise here.
Remains to see if throttle response ( I inlcude all type of lag from throttle to engine response in "throttle lag" ) will set this engine apart from a typical FI engine.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #3
Holset
Second Lieutenant
Sweden
6
Rep
250
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M4
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Okay so about 7500 rpm were is the rew limit 7700-7800rpm?
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #4
solstice
Colonel
46
Rep
2,561
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holset View Post
Okay so about 7500 rpm were is the rew limit 7700-7800rpm?
Does it matter when taken the dyno curves shifting before redline will give a more satisfying experience and better performance than running above redline?
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #5
Boss330
Brigadier General
Boss330's Avatar
Norway
77
Rep
3,683
Posts

 
Drives: F10 5xxi N53B30 - AC Schnitzer
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway, Scandinavia

iTrader: (0)

Nice find, suspect that official redline is 7600rpm (slightly above 7500rpm has been claimed by BMW).

In the onboard videos it seems like the drivers shift well before 7500, in fact under 7000rpm. Which makes sense as acceleration will be greater in the next gear instead of pushing to the redline like you would in a NA engine.

I guess that the short stroke will improve response compared to the N55 at least
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #6
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
ozinaldo's Avatar
Portugal
46
Rep
3,053
Posts

 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Thanks!

With that picture combined with the Dyno chart I think it's safe to say that this engine will act like a typical FI engine in terms of power delivery across the rev band.

With a 7500 rpm redline it looks from the dyno chart that plots the S65 on it as well that the power plateau should be around 5500 rpm. I.e when power stops building and maintain hp until redline. The quick run to peak hp and the square tq curve will make for a very fat midrange but the car will not be very exciting to rev past 5500 or 6000 rpm, max. The ferocious pull to redline from the S65 will not be there.

I.e much more S63TU than S65 as expected. No surprise here.
Remains to see if throttle response ( I inlcude all type of lag from throttle to engine response in "throttle lag" ) will set this engine apart from a typical FI engine.
My thoughts exactly. This engine is going to deliver and feel exactly like +500 rpm and +20% more peak power 1M (N54T).

Our redline is at 7000, power plateau is around 5000 and in terms of excitement there is not much past 5500 or 6000, despite the fact that it can hit the rev limiter pretty easily. It just is not that exciting to do so, in comparison to gobs of power available at low and mid range revs which is stupid fun!

It really sounds to me like a very well tuned 1M engine with an extra 500 rpm on tap. I am not talking about other new stuff and enhancements like in the cooling.

I bet the throttle response will in practice mimic the M button in the 1M as well (controlling wastegate, a different map) for sharp response , which I posted before as being NOT as natural as a good NA engine, like the S65 because it may be oversensitive and jerky at times. But maybe they fixed that too. S55 might just be the best FI engine in terms of response, as you defined it, since 1M was already very good compared to others, including other applications of the N54.
__________________
"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake.

Last edited by ozinaldo; 09-26-2013 at 12:33 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:13 PM   #7
Longboarder
Brigadier General
65
Rep
3,794
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.71]
2013 e92 M3  [4.55]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Not bad for a factory turbo car.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:13 PM   #8
Powaup
Colonel
Powaup's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
2,017
Posts

 
Drives: 6MT F82 M4
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oakland, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Looks spot on 7500 but I'm sure the rev limiter won't come in until 7800ish
__________________
2015 /// F82 M4 | AW-Blk Ext | 6MT | Executive | Adaptive Suspension | Black 19's
Youtube Channel

CSUN 2013 17/80 @ FSAE West Lincoln, Nebraska
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:17 PM   #9
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
214
Rep
10,201
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
My thoughts exactly. This engine is going to deliver and feel exactly like +500 rpm and +20% more peak power 1M (N54T).

Our redline is at 7000, power plateau is around 5000 and in terms of excitement there is not much past 5500 or 6000, despite the fact that it can hit the rev limiter pretty easily. It just is not that exciting to do so, in comparison to gobs of power available at low and mid range revs which is stupid fun!

It really sounds to me like a very well tuned 1M engine with an extra 500 rpm on tap. I am not talking about other new stuff and enhancements like in the cooling.

I bet the throttle response will in practice mimic the M button in the 1M as well (controlling wastegate, a different map) for sharp response
, which I posted before as being not as natural as a good NA engine, like the S65 because it may be oversensitive and jerky at times. But maybe they fixed that too. S55 might just be the best FI engine in terms of response, as you defined it, since 1M was already very good compared to others, including other applications of the N54.
I completely agree esp. the bold part. However, I think you feel this is more or less a win, whereas it's pretty disappointing for me. Only time and drives by journalists will really tell us about the throttle response.

In my most recent simulations the (approximate) shift points were less than redline in all gears except 1-2. In particular they were (that sim still is using a 7750 redline):

1-2: 7750 (redline)
2-3: 7100
3-4: 6600
4-5: 6500
5-6: 6300
6-7: 6200

This is simply the nature of the beast with a radically falling torque curve and flat power curve. The force at the wheels curves by gear vs. vehicle speed simply overlap and that is the ideal shift point for maximum performance. I guess we've pretty much known this since the revelation that the car would be turbo charged but it's really sinking in now. In short, other than in 1st gear, forget about the redline and forget about the corresponding thrills of a high redline. Redline will only be utilized for absolute drag racing starting in 1st gear.

Here is an interesting related question. Will the shift points for the DCT be programmed for maximum performance which means essentially short shifting? Ugh...
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:17 PM   #10
Danyutz
Private
Danyutz's Avatar
Romania
4
Rep
74
Posts

 
Drives: the UPO
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Romania

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via Skype™ to Danyutz
That doesn't look black panel tech to me, still looks analog, except for the yellow/red line.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:19 PM   #11
Suave
Major
Suave's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
1,321
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 F80 M3
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montgomery County, PA

iTrader: (0)

is this view of the dash claimed to be production version? I do like it...
__________________
MY LOADED AW-FULL SO F80 IS AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR LEASE! $821+Tax OR $67500:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9#post17081929
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:20 PM   #12
ASAP
Bring Mechanic With
ASAP's Avatar
No_Country
25
Rep
1,560
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 1er
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Determines Value

iTrader: (0)

mkoesel? tie? still not a definitive answer
__________________
2009 135i 6AT
E40 PTF Protune, AR Dp's, 5" ETS FMIC, BMS DCI, M3 RSFB's, Koni Yellow Shocks, Michelin PSS
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:21 PM   #13
JAM3S
Lieutenant
JAM3S's Avatar
6
Rep
599
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charlotte

iTrader: (1)

lol whats with some of you always bumping up the numbers??

This site has been spot on thus far in predictions and news yet the same people with no insider sources saying 425?? Hmmm more likely 450HP.... 390lb torque?? Hmmm more likely 410lb.... 7500 redline? Hmmm more likely 7800.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #14
r3dbimmer89
The Coolest
r3dbimmer89's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
821
Posts

 
Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

My thoughts exactly, a 7600 redline... not much more you can do with an FI engine. Overall, I am still really impressed. I am hoping that power doesn't fall off after 6k RPM like the N54/N55 but if so then oh well...
__________________
Past:12 E92 335i/ 08 E90 335i/02 E46 325i
Present:15 F80 ///M3
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #15
325rider
Zyzz Follower
United_States
9
Rep
788
Posts

 
Drives: '11 e90 M3 6mt
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Miami, Fl

iTrader: (1)

Anyone think the e46/e9x gauges were way sweeter and more proprietary looking? Cool new M, the passions in the transmission and the motor tho, and I prefer a std. 6 mt and NA motor.

Great car tho

I definitely think its going to have a 7550 rpm redline though, no way 7500, NO WAY
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #16
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
267
Rep
17,277
Posts

 
Drives: Golf Cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Solvang, CA/Camarillo, CA

iTrader: (4)

__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL US FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Need a quote or assistance from David? GO HERE-->bmwdavid@icloud.com or 202-262-2900
David's ED special ALL M cars-->http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1042739
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:29 PM   #17
ozinaldo
Brigadier General
ozinaldo's Avatar
Portugal
46
Rep
3,053
Posts

 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I completely agree esp. the bold part. However, I think you feel this is more or less a win, whereas it's pretty disappointing for me. Only time and drives by journalists will really tell us about the throttle response.

In my most recent simulations the (approximate) shift points were less than redline in all gears except 1-2. In particular they were (that sim still is using a 7750 redline):

1-2: 7750 (redline)
2-3: 7100
3-4: 6600
4-5: 6500
5-6: 6300
6-7: 6200

This is simply the nature of the beast with a radically falling torque curve and flat power curve. The force at the wheels curves by gear vs. vehicle speed simply overlap and that is the ideal shift point for maximum performance. I guess we've pretty much known this since the revelation that the car would be turbo charged but it's really sinking in now. In short, other than in 1st gear, forget about the redline and forget about the corresponding thrills of a high redline. Redline will only be utilized for absolute drag racing starting in 1st gear.

Here is an interesting related question. Will the shift points for the DCT be programmed for maximum performance which means essentially short shifting? Ugh...
That is a good question, don't remember much info regarding the DCT in the new car too, practically same as the one in E9X?

By the way, I don't really consider it as mind blowing news but yes I guess, having driven a nice little M car since two years it is less of an issue for me to worry about the response and revs.

I don't remember any occasion the car doesn't surprise and excite me, it always puts a smile on my face and this feeling doesn't get old so I have some faith in M engineers that they should have done it even better in the M4/M3, why and how they couldn't?

Just it is a big car, that's what really bothers me, nothing about the engine.
__________________
"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:31 PM   #18
Suave
Major
Suave's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
1,321
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 F80 M3
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montgomery County, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
My thoughts exactly. This engine is going to deliver and feel exactly like +500 rpm and +20% more peak power 1M (N54T).

Our redline is at 7000, power plateau is around 5000 and in terms of excitement there is not much past 5500 or 6000, despite the fact that it can hit the rev limiter pretty easily. It just is not that exciting to do so, in comparison to gobs of power available at low and mid range revs which is stupid fun!

It really sounds to me like a very well tuned 1M engine with an extra 500 rpm on tap. I am not talking about other new stuff and enhancements like in the cooling.

I bet the throttle response will in practice mimic the M button in the 1M as well (controlling wastegate, a different map) for sharp response
, which I posted before as being not as natural as a good NA engine, like the S65 because it may be oversensitive and jerky at times. But maybe they fixed that too. S55 might just be the best FI engine in terms of response, as you defined it, since 1M was already very good compared to others, including other applications of the N54.
I completely agree esp. the bold part. However, I think you feel this is more or less a win, whereas it's pretty disappointing for me. Only time and drives by journalists will really tell us about the throttle response.

In my most recent simulations the (approximate) shift points were less than redline in all gears except 1-2. In particular they were (that sim still is using a 7750 redline):

1-2: 7750 (redline)
2-3: 7100
3-4: 6600
4-5: 6500
5-6: 6300
6-7: 6200

This is simply the nature of the beast with a radically falling torque curve and flat power curve. The force at the wheels curves by gear vs. vehicle speed simply overlap and that is the ideal shift point for maximum performance. I guess we've pretty much known this since the revelation that the car would be turbo charged but it's really sinking in now. In short, other than in 1st gear, forget about the redline and forget about the corresponding thrills of a high redline. Redline will only be utilized for absolute drag racing starting in 1st gear.

Here is an interesting related question. Will the shift points for the DCT be programmed for maximum performance which means essentially short shifting? Ugh...
Great input Ozinaldo and Swamp!
__________________
MY LOADED AW-FULL SO F80 IS AVAILABLE FOR SALE OR LEASE! $821+Tax OR $67500:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9#post17081929
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:32 PM   #19
NISFAN
Brigadier General
NISFAN's Avatar
England
67
Rep
4,252
Posts

 
Drives: The best kind of F30 :)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bedford UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyutz View Post
That doesn't look black panel tech to me, still looks analog, except for the yellow/red line.
And thank goodness for that, the black panel instrument cluster in the 7er is vile.

Is HUD standard in M3/4 like M5/6?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:35 PM   #20
SoCalS2k
Private First Class
SoCalS2k's Avatar
24
Rep
174
Posts

 
Drives: S2K!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2001 Honda S2k  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyutz View Post
That doesn't look black panel tech to me, still looks analog, except for the yellow/red line.
And thank goodness for that, the black panel instrument cluster in the 7er is vile.

Is HUD standard in M3/4 like M5/6?
3 and 4 series have HUD so I'm sure we'll see it as standard on M3 and M4, and with M mode like on M5/M6.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:35 PM   #21
Holset
Second Lieutenant
Sweden
6
Rep
250
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M4
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Does it matter when taken the dyno curves shifting before redline will give a more satisfying experience and better performance than running above redline?
Just curious.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2013, 12:37 PM   #22
jhv
Lieutenant General
jhv's Avatar
No_Country
436
Rep
17,307
Posts

 
Drives: Every Day
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (1)

gotta love that dyno!
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 carbon fiber roof, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 curb weight, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 redline, bmw m4 rev limit, bmw m4 rev limiter, bmw m4 rpm, bmw m4 rpm redline, f80 m3 redline, f80 m3 rev limit, f80 m3 rev limiter, f80 m3 rpm, f80 m3 rpm redline

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST