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View Poll Results: What transmission will-you-get or do-you-have in your M3/M4?
6MT 1,220 53.56%
DCT 1,058 46.44%
Voters: 2278. You may not vote on this poll

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      11-22-2013, 02:21 PM   #23
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that DCT looks like its from a M5
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      11-22-2013, 02:25 PM   #24
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Also I'd have to say the RS5 and the M are too different cars that unfortunately are in the same class. Audis look outdated so quickly to me They change light designs every 2 months, they are soft in their steering and their transmissions do not impress me. Every time I go for a test drive of an S4/5 or and RS5, TTRS, my favorite drive is the drive home!! Oh that RS5 should come in a MT too!!
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      11-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #25
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I can't respond to the poll since I am still on the fence

I had been driving MT on street and track for 15+ years before I made the leap to my current DCT E92 M3 5 years ago. I absolutely love the DCT. While I do miss some of the involvement of the 3 pedals, the performance advantage and the other benefits of the DCT are still greater from my point of view. The tighter ratios, extra gear and instant shifts all allow to better exploit the peaky power curve of the S65.

Now on the F8X, the weight advantage of the 6MT will most likely be 70+lbs. Further, the broad power plateau of the S55 does not benefit as much from the tighter ratios provided by the DCT. According to recent articles, the new DCT will use the same ratios as the M5/6 which have much larger spacing compared to the old DCT. The first gear overall ratio will be shorter than on the E9X rendering 1st gear pretty much useless (especially considering the extra torque of the S55). It just seems that the new DCT is not as optimized towards extracting max performance compared to the previous one.

Now there is still the advantage of the instantaneous shifts and the ability to keep both hands on the wheel at the track.

I am eager to see the the official gearbox and final drive ratios for both 6MT and DCT and their respective performance numbers.

Decisions, decsions...
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      11-22-2013, 03:21 PM   #26
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There is absolutely no way that a 70lb difference in weight between the DCT and manual can make up for the MUCH slower shifts you get with a manual.

Look, if we were talking torque converter slushbox automatics, I would agree with the 6-speed crowd. But firing off fast shifts is critical to get the most performance out of a powerplant.

Not only that, but I find DCT encourages more spirited driving on roads because it's just so effortless to act like a hooligan. And the benefits in traffic? Almost priceless.
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      11-22-2013, 03:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbockrd View Post
Oh that RS5 should come in a MT too!!
I'd rather the RS5 lose about 400 lbs and move the engine a good foot towards the rear of the car.

It honestly sucks that Audi simply cannot put together a car to compete against the M3.
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      11-22-2013, 03:24 PM   #28
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DCTs at low speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
Not only that, but I find DCT encourages more spirited driving on roads because it's just so effortless to act like a hooligan. And the benefits in traffic? Almost priceless.
No question the DCT is going to be faster in spirited driving. How does the DCT operate in creeping bumper-bumper traffic where with a manual you can feather it or easily go in and out of neutral to control your speed?
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      11-22-2013, 03:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
No question the DCT is going to be faster in spirited driving. How does the DCT operate in creeping bumper-bumper traffic where with a manual you can feather it or easily go in and out of neutral to control your speed?
It does very well, the car doesn't move after coming to a stop unless you give throttle and there is a creep mode that is much slower than that of a torque converter that you can activate by tapping the throttle. The DCT is very, very good at everything but it will never be as involving as an MT.

My thinking is that selecting the MT will make up for some of what I expect to be loss of visceral and connected feel with the F80 but I'm still on the fence.
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      11-22-2013, 03:39 PM   #30
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The iDrive in the first picture is not an iDrive touch while the second one next to the DCT shifter.

As others have said there's way too much CF on the second picture although i doubt that's how the DCT shifter will come stock.

Otherwise I am on the fence between the 2, MT is 70 lbs lighter, cheaper, rowing through gears is fun and having a clutch pedal adds a whole new "dimension" to driving. On the other hand DCT is the future; much faster, more fuel efficient and also a lot of fun when you turn the settings all the way up
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      11-22-2013, 03:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
No question the DCT is going to be faster in spirited driving. How does the DCT operate in creeping bumper-bumper traffic where with a manual you can feather it or easily go in and out of neutral to control your speed?
Have you ever driven a DCT? It does all of the above quite well...
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      11-22-2013, 03:44 PM   #32
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6MT for me.
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      11-22-2013, 03:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
There is absolutely no way that a 70lb difference in weight between the DCT and manual can make up for the MUCH slower shifts you get with a manual.

Look, if we were talking torque converter slushbox automatics, I would agree with the 6-speed crowd. But firing off fast shifts is critical to get the most performance out of a powerplant.

Not only that, but I find DCT encourages more spirited driving on roads because it's just so effortless to act like a hooligan. And the benefits in traffic? Almost priceless.
As I posted in another thread, the DCT will most likely be faster in a straight line. However, the DCT advantage will not be as great on the F8X as it is on the E9X.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 11-22-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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      11-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
I'd rather the RS5 lose about 400 lbs and move the engine a good foot towards the rear of the car.

It honestly sucks that Audi simply cannot put together a car to compete against the M3.
Agree Way too heavy
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      11-22-2013, 05:43 PM   #35
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I was 100% going Auto DCT, after a spirited drive in an auto I decided I wasn't quite so sure and I decided to maybe go manual, after a word with Tiff Needell I'm now definitely going manual.
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      11-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtoM View Post
I was 100% going Auto DCT, after a spirited drive in an auto I decided I wasn't quite so sure and I decided to maybe go manual, after a word with Tiff Needell I'm now definitely going manual.
Wait, what, Tiff is a buddy of yours?
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      11-22-2013, 06:42 PM   #37
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Manual transmission.
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      11-22-2013, 09:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Wait, what, Tiff is a buddy of yours?
No, just a random encounter with the legend.
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      11-23-2013, 05:53 AM   #39
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Dual clutch transmissions might be great, but for me it is like bringing a girl to a fast orgasm with a high tech vibrator.
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      11-23-2013, 08:02 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Dual clutch transmissions might be great, but for me it is like bringing a girl to a fast orgasm with a high tech vibrator.
Hahaha! Good analogy.
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      11-23-2013, 12:06 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
I'd rather the RS5 lose about 400 lbs and move the engine a good foot towards the rear of the car.

It honestly sucks that Audi simply cannot put together a car to compete against the M3.
Uh, pretty sure the R8 destroys it. But I see your point that an M3 leads the RS5, S4, e90 335i and lastly the 435i.

In NorCal, the clubs that go to the track have as many R8's as M3's in attendance. It's something to see 30 R8's roll onto a paddock.

I'm not a true to the core Audi fanboy. It's just that for $49k they made a much more compelling car than BMW did in 2010 (335 lacked differentials, special interior/exterior treatment). The steering in my car got better when I aligned it aggressively for track use. BMW lost their steering advantage since they went electronic.
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Last edited by gee-m-w; 11-23-2013 at 12:15 PM.
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      11-23-2013, 12:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
No question the DCT is going to be faster in spirited driving. How does the DCT operate in creeping bumper-bumper traffic where with a manual you can feather it or easily go in and out of neutral to control your speed?
My S4 doesn't even require me to use the gas in traffic. Just let the clutch out in 1st and it will add throttle so the car doesn't stall. Pretty easy on the feet, left foot driving. It has enough torque that I can start it in 2nd or even 3rd gear on a San Francisco hill without worry.

I'm really OK with manual on a track because you do most of the course in 4th gear. There's 2-3 places where you can downshift to 3rd but honestly you don't always have to.
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      11-23-2013, 12:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post

I'm not a true to the core Audi fanboy. It's just that for $49k they made a much more compelling car than BMW did in 2010 (335 lacked differentials, special interior/exterior treatment). The steering in my car got better when I aligned it aggressively for track use. BMW lost their steering advantage since they went electronic.
I would agree that you made the right choice.
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      11-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #44
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Man up and get the manual

Why are most used Porsches PDK?

The DCT, I think, is better in pure auto mode only against the DSG/S-TRONiC/PDK because of its gearing ratio and they way it hooks up with the equities of the S65... I like DCT manual in S6 mode. The DSG fires faster to me. I drive my DCT in D3/S6 with sport+ on at all times and I still wish it was faster.

Every time I get info my dual clutch car I reach for the third pedal
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