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      12-12-2013, 12:12 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by left123 View Post
Well, unfortunately, after just watching the newest videos posted here (the ones of the m3/m4 individually on the track), the sound of each car on this official video is really very lackluster. Almost appliance-esque. I love the straight 6 and am glad they went back to it, but this sounds like crap to me. I know the aftermarket can fix it (most likely) but we shouldn't have to go to it for a reasonable sound.

The sound of a car is one of the more emotional components of it. Don't downplay this. The v8 e9x M3 definitely has it acoustically. The rest will be decided later, but its not always about pure speed, at least 95% of the time.
I agree that the sound is part of the emotional components of the car. But the e92 M2 V8 was hardly a sexy V8 sound. To me, the best sounding V8's currently are the baritone 6.4L V8 found in SRTs. Alternatively, the C7 has a more masculine V8 sound. All that said, the e92 does sound better than the new M3/M4 exhaust note, which does sound like a fart-box, as others have stated on this forum.
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      12-12-2013, 12:16 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
Same 3.0 liter block on this car is going to be stressed from the factory. Aftermarket tuning is going to be somewhat limited...not like what the N54 guys are/were experiencing.

Until Chris Harris gets behind the wheel I'm going to refrain putting down a deposit. A lot of marketing Kool Aid here, let's not forget the competition is bringing heavy artillery to this next generation gunfight and BMW is giving us a tweaked N55. And charging us for it.
I was just going to say this...get Chris Harris behind the wheel. After all he is a M and M3 enthusiast and he got to test drive the prototype F10 M5.
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      12-12-2013, 12:33 AM   #91
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I'm pretty impressed with the engine specs. 7600 rpm redline on a twin turbo car with 10:1 compression ratio? That's amazing.

The interior is also phenomenal looking. Even the rear seats are no joke!
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      12-12-2013, 12:34 AM   #92
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On the tuning discussion:

James, BMW's FI motors have been modestly under-rated. By your own points, they are making usually ~5% less that their rated crank hp according to most dyno's. Let's not sit here and expect the f80 to be making 400whp just yet. That'd be 50whp better than the typical s65.

I also think the tuning paradigm has changed. The n54 was a special motor with a lot of potential that was easily accessible. The n55 is less so. The n20 taps out at ~270whp without hefty mods or e85, etc.

I think BMW is now getting more comfortable pushing their turbo motors from the factory a bit further. And this new f80 application is going to be using two small turbos to eliminate lag - that is not a recipe for adding 100whp with headers and a tune.

...

On the flip side, let's remember that the market for m5/m6 tuning is not that big and thus there may simply not be the urgency to break their ECUs open just yet.
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      12-12-2013, 12:53 AM   #93
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wtf!!! ???

BMW just lost me as a customer?

or maybe, just maybe I am moving onto M5... or something like that...

there is no way I want to be associated to Mitsubshi in any way

sorry, but I am a snob.
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      12-12-2013, 12:54 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
M4 is 50 pounds lighter than M3, but the 435i is 55 pounds HEAVIER than the 335i? why would BMW do that?

so the M4 got 100 pounds more cut off than the M3, very strange.

maybe I read the specs on the F30/32 wrong?
.
.
.
The 4 series chassis is wider than the standard 3 series, since the M3 and M4 sit on the exact same chassis (likely based on the 4 due to it being lower and wider) it stands to reason that this is why the regular 435i is heavier than a 335i while the M4 is lighter than essentially the same car with a larger body (M3).
Agree?
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      12-12-2013, 12:56 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimabimmer View Post
wtf!!! ???

BMW just lost me as a customer?

or maybe, just maybe I am moving onto M5... or something like that...

there is no way I want to be associated to Mitsubshi in any way

sorry, but I am a snob.
I hope you are joking. Mitusbishi has been making turbochargers for a variety of cars for decades now. Very reliable ones too.
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      12-12-2013, 01:00 AM   #96
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That M4 has WIN written all over it (it is in the flake of that paint)
The proportions just fit so well, designed into it. Well done BMW. Well done.

The M3 is very nice, but does not look nearly as aggressive or sporty like the coupe. I suppose that is normally the case though due to the roofline being higher on the sedan. It becomes more clear in the videos. The M4 just looks better in motion.

I also prefer the side bulges on the coupe, it has the entire panel shaped wider instead of just poking out the fenders. Flow.
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      12-12-2013, 01:05 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuned1M View Post
Looks like Terry has one of the first build spots so it shouldn't be too long before he cracks the DME and provides another great tuning solution for the M3/M4.
very cool, although what psi do you guys think is realistic here? Most n54 tunes bring it up to around 16 psi I thought, and those put out impressive numbers on the same compression, bore, stroke, and volume.

Hmmmm. I see some forged internals in the specs, and additional cooling, but what will be the failure point with additional boost?

Personally, I would leave it bone stock. I think it will be an excellent package from the factory. Maybe give it the same treatment that my car now has, a PPK and PE. Sweet spot.
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      12-12-2013, 01:09 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
very cool, although what psi do you guys think is realistic here? Most n54 tunes bring it up to around 16 psi I thought, and those put out impressive numbers on the same compression, bore, stroke, and volume.

Hmmmm. I see some forged internals in the specs, and additional cooling, but what will be the failure point with additional boost?

Personally, I would leave it bone stock. I think it will be an excellent package from the factory. Maybe give it the same treatment that my car now has, a PPK and PE. Sweet spot.
I don't think BMW engineers a production engine to be within an inch of it's life and leaves headroom.

Granted, it might not have as much to gain as the N54, but it will show nice gains as I feel the 18psi and tuning is no where near maxed out.
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      12-12-2013, 01:13 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I don't think BMW engineers a production engine to be within an inch of it's life and leaves headroom.

Granted, it might not have as much to gain as the N54, but it will show nice gains as I feel the 18psi and tuning is no where near maxed out.
I would bet that small turbos spinning at 200,000 rpm are quite close to being maxed out.
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      12-12-2013, 01:15 AM   #100
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It's OK, we all have our blind spots when it comes to knowledge. If you want a high-pressure turbo that's going to run for years without coking, fragging, etc. Mitsubishi is just about your only choice when it comes to proven performance and reliability (there's several examples of makes that fall into one or the other but not both.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by dimabimmer View Post
wtf!!! ???

BMW just lost me as a customer?

or maybe, just maybe I am moving onto M5... or something like that...

there is no way I want to be associated to Mitsubshi in any way

sorry, but I am a snob.
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      12-12-2013, 01:16 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24 View Post
I would bet that small turbos spinning at 200,000 rpm are quite close to being maxed out.
It's more complicated than that.

You have seen the specs on these turbos, size of the wheels, know the VE etc?

Like I said, it would be unwise to have components be so close to the edge, makes BMW very susceptible for premature failure claims.
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      12-12-2013, 01:18 AM   #102
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Everything seems promising thus far. Although i'm probably keeping the E90 for a while, I must admit I haven't been this excited over the release of a new car in a while.

The Gran Turismo 6 release M4 debut was also equally stunning.

Sounds like the Inline-6 ended up not sounding like a lawn mower based on the official videos and the noises it makes in GT6. We'll see this coming year whether the sound and driving feel is on-par.
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      12-12-2013, 01:21 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
It's more complicated than that.

You have seen the specs on these turbos, size of the wheels, know the VE etc?

Like I said, it would be unwise to have components be so close to the edge, makes BMW very susceptible for premature failure claims.
I am not saying anything about the ability to find extra hp in other areas, I was just saying from the engineering stand point, 200,000rpm is pretty incredible for a turbo already. I don't think higher psi would be a good idea.
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      12-12-2013, 01:26 AM   #104
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I'm extremely impressed and am leaning towards an M4 to replace my E90 M3. Anyone see the offset specs for the wheels.
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      12-12-2013, 01:30 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24 View Post
I am not saying anything about the ability to find extra hp in other areas, I was just saying from the engineering stand point, 200,000rpm is pretty incredible for a turbo already. I don't think higher psi would be a good idea.
I think just like tuning our N20's, extra PSI means a reduction in longevity. If the target is the OEM turbo lives to 120k, that the increase in boost of 10-15% could equate to a similar shortening in life. Which if that means the turbo dies at 90k now, well there is the excuse to upgrade down the road.
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      12-12-2013, 01:31 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z8chP View Post
I'm pretty impressed with the engine specs. 7600 rpm redline on a twin turbo car with 10:1 compression ratio? That's amazing.

The interior is also phenomenal looking. Even the rear seats are no joke!
And with better gas mileage no less!
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      12-12-2013, 01:33 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I think just like tuning our N20's, extra PSI means a reduction in longevity. If the target is the OEM turbo lives to 120k, that the increase in boost of 10-15% could equate to a similar shortening in life. Which if that means the turbo dies at 90k now, well there is the excuse to upgrade down the road.
I think we just got back on the same page brother!! I have always been a fan of 800hp turbo cars anyways! Have you done anything with the N20 engine wise?
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      12-12-2013, 01:35 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flagger
Those that can not keep their right foot out of the throttle are going to be buying rear tires a lot. This car will probably spin it tires as much as a Merc C63 with the torque it is producing. Merc can't seem to get their rear wheels hooked up easily. Hopefully the chassis engineers at BMW have solved that problem with the new M's.

Also, fuel tank capacity appears to have gone down to 15.8 gal. I'm glad to see the mpg figure go up, but I was hoping for a slightly larger tank than the E92, perhaps 17 - 17.5 gal.

Overall, should be a stunning car to drive and look forward to their arrival.
Being a former C63 owner I will agree it burns through tires. But the new M3 has less weight to propel and still about 40 less torque. The C63 also had a very aggressive alignment. I only got 6k miles from my stock tired then 9k on my replacement mich pps tires, fronts lasted 25k.
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      12-12-2013, 01:41 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishhead24 View Post
I think we just got back on the same page brother!! I have always been a fan of 800hp turbo cars anyways! Have you done anything with the N20 engine wise?
I have the Rogue prototype exhaust on at the moment, I did not sign off on it and waiting for a final sample to approve next month.

I had a BMS stage 1 for awhile, took it off and sold it(helped fund my top end rebuild on the E36/7) as I wait for stage 2 to come out of Beta and show electronic solenoid control.

But my finances are changing enough next year where it might be silly to mod the F30 and might just order an F80 in 6-12 months.
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      12-12-2013, 01:43 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I don't need to do research. I am not talking about easy or not, I am just not being bleak about the car's future tuning potential.

I have an NA engine that I bolted a supercharger onto which I love. I also have a factory FI engine in the other car.

The S65 with $15k bolt on blower is no where near the category of easy/bang for the buck power that an OEM FI setup like the S55 WILL offer...the time that takes not withstanding.
Just so you know, $8k in mods(supercharger+test pipes) on the S65 will give you ~500whp, I think that's some pretty good bang for the buck! And the sound it makes!!

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