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      01-15-2014, 03:22 AM   #1
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Post We Talk M3 / M4 Nurburgring Time, Electric Steering & Other Tech Highlights w/ BMW M

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We Talk M3 / M4 Nurburgring Time, Electric Steering & Other Tech Highlights w/ BMW M
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We hope you've been enjoying our coverage from the 2014 Detroit auto show, but we're not done yet!

We've just had the opportunity to speak to BMW M representatives, including BMW M CEO Dr. Nitschke, Carsten Pries (Director of Product, BMW M), Albert Biermann (Director of Engineering, BMW M) and Florian Nissl (BMW M4 Exterior Designer), on the new M3 and M4. This is what they had to share.

[Please refer to the Official Threads [F80 M3 | F82 M4] for all official tech specs.]

New Highlights
F80 M3 / F82 M4 are more than 10 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the E90/E92 M3.
The M3/M4 were more or less built and developed around the steering. This electric power steering system (EPS) is the best that money can buy today. Our benchmark was to beat the current M3 in terms of steering feedback and we beat it (and there's not much out there that can claim to beat the current M3 when it comes to steering feedback and precision). The steering is very much an enjoyable part of the car and you will be able to enjoy it not just on the Nurburgring, but also just going to the office everyday.
Reported DIN weight is with standard brakes (not carbon ceramics).
Carbon ceramic brakes save 6-7kg (13.2lbs - 15.4lbs) overall. Not as much weight saved as on the F10 M5 with ceramic brakes, but that's because the caliper upgrade is much bigger than in the M5's situation. Here, we're seeing the calipers go from 4 piston front / 2 piston rear on the standard M3/M4 brakes to the 6 piston front / 4 piston rear calipers on the M Carbon Ceramic Brakes.
Automatic rev matching on the manual transmission is disabled in Sport+ mode. It's active in the Sport and Comfort modes.
Center of gravity is pretty much the same between the M3 and M4, but not identical since the two cars have different shock absorber settings. Both are a little lower than the 3/4 Series.
M3 naturally has an aerodynamically better shape than the M4 (if the M4 did not have its gurney integrated trunk) due to the M4's less steep and longer roof. The gurney flap integrated into the M4 trunk spoiler helps the M4 catch up aerodynamically.
New trunk lid removes 5kg (11 lbs) from the car instead of active rear spoilers which would have added weight to the car.
Manual transmission is a further developed gearbox from the 1M Coupe, with twin blade clutch, updated oil system and coating within the gearbox to take the higher load of the S55 engine. It's also lighter by more than 12kg (26.5 lbs) compared to manual gearbox in E90 M3.
Manual transmission gearbox saves 55 pounds in the US curb weight (compared to DCT).
Rear seats are 5kg (11 lbs) lighter than regular 3 or 4 Series.
Engine crankshaft is about 3kg (6.6 lbs) lighter than typical BMW inline 6 engine, but 20% stiffer.
Crankcase housing is 2.8kg (6.2 lbs) lighter. No steel liners. Unique aluminum alloy plasmacoated with steel plasma, which reduces friction levels. This technology was used on the M3 GTS with its upgraded 4.4L 450hp engine.
Car's components are engineered to withstand up to 1.4g braking force and more than 1.2g of lateral acceleration.

Roundtable Q&A:

What kind of effort does the M3/4 represent for the BMW M organization at all levels?

At BMW M, this [the M3/M4] is our priority 1 car in all aspects, from strategic naming in the early stage, then the product management level and then all the engineering. This is clearly our number one car - the core. If you look at the huge successful sales numbers of the M3 over all the generations, it leads to the fact that we have to spend even more time, effort and money on this car than on any other M cars because the expectations of our customers are extremely high.

Do I spend the money for the M3/M4 when the M235i is actually already giving me the performance of an E46 M3? Is there a chance that the overlap between the M3/M4 and M235i could cause a loss of sales of the M3/M4?

We obviously don't want to draw people from the M3/M4 into something that is below like the M235i, but the character of these two cars are clearly distinctive, in terms of appearance and a big difference in performance. In driving it you will immediately realize that the M3/M4 has been inspired heavily by motorsport.

Another way to look at it is that with the M235i there is an opportunity to get younger people into an M235i so they get a taste of what an M car could be, and then their next step is to buy the real thing. In the end, we're convinced that we will sell more M3/M4 by getting younger people into the M235i so we can guide them to the real thing.

Has the return to DTM racing boosted your sales?

It's very difficult to say to what extent it boosted sales, but for brand image it is very important. BMW M GmbH used to be BMW Motorsports GmbH. Motorsport and BMW is a very strong and natural link.

How do you view your competitors?

For us there are basically two groups of competitors - first one in terms of driving dynamics and overall conceptual spirit is Porsche. They are closest to us in terms of brand DNA and aspirations, driving experience, agility and precision.

Then there are competitors the likes of AMG of Mercedes and RS of Audi. The S models from Audi are considered competitors of our M Performance Models, so the M235i for example would compete against an S model from Audi if they had a two-door. The Audi TT-S is probably what comes closest to it. Compared to AMG and RS models, BMW has been in a very strong position, even though sometimes it depends on which stage of the life cycle our products are in. Over an entire life cycle, the M3 is number one in its segment, the M5 is number one in its segment and the X5 M and X6 M are the most successful cars in their segment.

Is M looking into xDrive for M3/M4 or M5/M6? It could drop 0-60mph times.

Do you want to fool around with an extra 70-80kg (155 - 176 lbs) of weight? We have never been the king of traffic lights. Driving fun is what counts. All wheel drive is just a disturbance in that area. We've taken a huge effort to reduce the weight of the M3/M4 compared to the previous generation, so it would not be smart to add all that weight back for just one feature.

End.

For the 2015 M3/M4 base US pricing see: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=934659

For the M3/M4 ordering and delivery timeline see: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=934644


Updated with audio from the roundtable:



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      01-15-2014, 05:02 AM   #2
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Even though I mourn the loss of the S65, BMW seems to be taking the right direction with the new M3/M4. I appreciate their focus on steering feel/EPS (I hope the reviews are good) and better handling/performance with weight reduction.

That being said, the competition is getting better as well. New C63, RC-F, ATS-V, RS etc...--everyone is cutting weight, adding carbon bits, and upping their HP. I look forward to the future car comparisons.
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      01-15-2014, 05:53 AM   #3
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Excellent job Jason on posting this information. Great questions and just like what was said earlier, BMW M looks like they have a clear and concise direction that they are heading in.
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      01-15-2014, 06:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
[Is M looking into xDrive for M3/M4 or M5/M6? It could drop 0-60mph times.

Do you want to fool around with an extra 70-80kg (155 - 176 lbs) of weight? We have never been the king of traffic lights. Driving fun is what counts. All wheel drive is just a disturbance in that area. We've taken a huge effort to reduce the weight of the M3/M4 compared to the previous generation, so it would not be smart to add all that weight back for just one feature.
I bet that xdrive will be an option on the next generation M5/6 and probably M3/4 too, like it is on the new generation AMG models.

Right now these executives can't say anything positive about AWD for these cars because BMW M don't currently offer it and they don't want to lose sales to competitors. Lots of AMG clients are opting for AWD, BMW M will follow with optional xdrive. It won't be the first time that BMW M offer something that they said they wouldn't.
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      01-15-2014, 06:47 AM   #5
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I just hope that the steering feel that is mentioned will be there. I have driven the new porsches, and the steering is not as good as the old hydraulic ones. But let us see what BMW has to offer before we start criticizing.

I can't wait to see it.
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      01-15-2014, 07:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE_M3 View Post
I bet that xdrive will be an option on the next generation M5/6 and probably M3/4 too, like it is on the new generation AMG models.

Right now these executives can't say anything positive about AWD for these cars because BMW M don't currently offer it and they don't want to lose sales to competitors. Lots of AMG clients are opting for AWD, BMW M will follow with optional xdrive. It won't be the first time that BMW M offer something that they said they wouldn't.

Absolutely! Agree.
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      01-15-2014, 07:12 AM   #7
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■ Automatic rev matching on the manual transmission is disabled in Sport+ mode. It's active in the Sport and Comfort modes.

■ Manual transmission is a further developed gearbox from the 1M Coupe, with twin blade clutch, updated oil system and coating within the gearbox to take the higher load of the S55 engine. It's also lighter by more than 12kg (26.5 lbs) compared to manual gearbox in E90 M3.



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      01-15-2014, 07:35 AM   #8
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Thanks for getting these questions answered....especially the 'ring times!
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      01-15-2014, 07:42 AM   #9
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      01-15-2014, 07:49 AM   #10
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So if the f80 is already TEN WHOLE FRICKIN' SECONDS faster around the n-ring than the e90? ... and the added weight from an xDrive will make it only 5 seconds faster instead of 10? That is not a bad compromise at all. And the xDrive will likely make up for some of the added weight in part due to quicker launches and corner exits. Do it BMW. Do it. xDrive M cars please!



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      01-15-2014, 07:56 AM   #11
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Interesting about the MT vs DCT weight difference. I thought that difference was about 50 lbs. for the E9x M3 as well. With the MT dropping weight and the difference staying about the same (assuming I am remembering correctly), I suppose we can conclude that the DCT has lost weight also?
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      01-15-2014, 08:03 AM   #12
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Though, remember the E9x was an 8:0x car.

Back in 2007 when the car hit, that was a very respectable time. But the bar has moved quickly in the last few years - and further than ten seconds. A 7:5x time is well and good, but the fast cars are getting *very* fast. Mid 7 min range is being hit by cars under $100k. And BMWs own M235i (or M135i perhaps) is in the 8:10 range if I recall.

That being said, we have seen what AWD does for the GTR, so a good system can overcome its weight penalty and then some, or so it appears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
So if the f80 is already TEN WHOLE FRICKIN' SECONDS faster around the n-ring than the e90? ... and the added weight from an xDrive will make it only 5 seconds faster instead of 10? That is not a bad compromise at all. And the xDrive will likely make up for some of the added weight in part due to quicker launches and corner exits. Do it BMW. Do it. xDrive M cars please!
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      01-15-2014, 08:05 AM   #13
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Great info and coverage!
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      01-15-2014, 08:06 AM   #14
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My nipples explode with delight. Great stuff, Jason.
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      01-15-2014, 08:13 AM   #15
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Kind of makes it a push on the CCB/BBK decision too. With the caliper upgrade, negates out of pocket expense for aftermarket kits. Nice.
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      01-15-2014, 08:34 AM   #16
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A +10 second improvement on the Ring is a great feat indeed. My question is what is the current record for a stock M3 in the ring. I saw something on Wikipedia that said 8:05 but I have to believe that can't be accurate. Anyone?
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      01-15-2014, 09:15 AM   #17
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Yes, AWD is a must for this kind of power and torque. And it feels good to be traffic lights king, why not? Where is the fun spinning the wheels up until 3rd gear?
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      01-15-2014, 09:15 AM   #18
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      01-15-2014, 09:17 AM   #19
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the Ring time disappoints me, even though it should be an irrelevant yard stick. but it's still a yard stick, and I would have expected this car (esp. with CCB's) to crack into the upper 7:4X range.

that said, I like what they had to say about the steering, and I always love these cars because of what they deliver - highly attainable driving fun. can't wait to drive this.

also, am I the only one surprised that the aerodynamics of the sedan are better? seems counter-intuitive, but I'm not complaining. tack that on to the multitude of other reasons why I'm already favoring the sedan.
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      01-15-2014, 09:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
Yes, AWD is a must for this kind of power and torque. And it feels good to be traffic lights king, why not? Where is the fun spinning the wheels up until 3rd gear?
did you really just ask that question?

also, if they're just gonna mimic their competitors, that's one less thing that makes the car stand out. I, for one, love the fact that it's RWD and wouldn't buy one if it were AWD.
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      01-15-2014, 09:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
So if the f80 is already TEN WHOLE FRICKIN' SECONDS faster around the n-ring than the e90? ... and the added weight from an xDrive will make it only 5 seconds faster instead of 10? That is not a bad compromise at all. And the xDrive will likely make up for some of the added weight in part due to quicker launches and corner exits. Do it BMW. Do it. xDrive M cars please!



.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
Yes, AWD is a must for this kind of power and torque. And it feels good to be traffic lights king, why not? Where is the fun spinning the wheels up until 3rd gear?


Dafuq. You both deserve an infraction for this.
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      01-15-2014, 09:31 AM   #22
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The E92's 8:05 time was with a 2007 M3 with a manual transmission. I think its safe to assume the E92 with DCT and comp pack would do around an 8 flat or down to a 7:58ish.

Above he did say "its MORE than 10 seconds faster", the M4 is lighter, lower, and wider with 100lb-ft more torque, I think it will lap the ring close to what the latest 991 S did a 7:37. To support this Motor trend talked to Albert Biermann at Detroit about MT's annual track shootout at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, and Biermann stated that a 911 Carrera 4S, the defending BDC champ, "will need to be fully optioned with performance goodies to keep up with the M4."

Last edited by cs4444; 01-15-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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