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      01-15-2014, 07:25 PM   #1
ybbiz34
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BMW employee on new M3/M4: sloppy talentless drivers need not apply

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Refreshing.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-show...?src=soc_fcbks

"M3/M4: Sloppy drivers need not apply

[Overheard at the Detroit auto show:]

'The M3/M4 won’t tolerate sloppy throttle inputs. It’s without a doubt the highest-performance road car M has built, but it also requires a LOT of talent to drive ... at least BMW has a network of driver’s schools to help there, starting with the teen driving program up through the BMW CCA race schools.'"

- A BMW employee who’s driven the new M3
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      01-15-2014, 08:13 PM   #2
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This doesn't really make sense to me. It seems like German cars (and sporty cars in general) are trending toward being easy to drive fast. That seems to be something that Porsche especially prides itself on these days, and I think it's a mark of a good car. That's something the E9x M3 was really known for, is being easy and confidence inspiring to drive fast. I would think they'd try to aim for the same thing again. If they haven't achieved it, that's disappointing.
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      01-15-2014, 08:21 PM   #3
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I see what you're getting at. Yeah this was an "off the record" comment that made its way on the record.
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      01-15-2014, 08:22 PM   #4
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This is one random guy at BMW stating this but im not really surprised since the car does have way more torque. Wasnt this the same feedback from the E36 M3 to the E46 M3. According to Chris Harris, the Ferrari F40 is harder to drive than the F50 because of the turbo's sudden power delivery. Some may find this more fun lol. But yea inspiring confidence behind the wheel is something the E9X M3 is known for so thats interesting. We will just have to wait for more un-bias opinions.
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      01-15-2014, 08:32 PM   #5
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For the clueless who turn off the nannies and mash the throttle, I imagine it will punish some of them! If what they're saying is true, all that low end torque will mean that even E9x M3 drivers will have to adjust.
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      01-15-2014, 11:42 PM   #6
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So far this is none more than hearsay by an enthusiastic guy claiming bragging rights for driving this car before anyone else (also questionable and non-verifiable). Speculation at its best.
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      01-15-2014, 11:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
So far this is none more than hearsay by an enthusiastic guy claiming bragging rights for driving this car before anyone else (also questionable and non-verifiable). Speculation at its best.
Unfortunately, until we actually get to drive the car, there is going to be a lot of mere speculation out there.

Road & Track indicated that it was an actual quotation from a BMW employee. That wouldn't do much for their credibility there if it turned out that they fabricated it word for word.

"It’s without a doubt the highest-performance road car M has built, but it also requires a LOT of talent to drive."

Sure that's a bold statement but at the very least it's encouraging to hear for those of us excited about the new car.
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      01-15-2014, 11:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
So far this is none more than hearsay by an enthusiastic guy claiming bragging rights for driving this car before anyone else (also questionable and non-verifiable). Speculation at its best.
Yep, seems the most likely scenario
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      01-16-2014, 12:10 AM   #9
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And that's the beauty of a high reving true //M engine with a high red line that just keeps pulling up until just before redline.

.
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      01-16-2014, 12:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M235i
So far this is none more than hearsay by an enthusiastic guy claiming bragging rights for driving this car before anyone else (also questionable and non-verifiable). Speculation at its best.


Exactly. It requires "a lot of talent" to drive..? This guy must be a near-pro level driver, like most BMW employees I know.
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      01-16-2014, 12:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post

...


"It’s without a doubt the highest-performance road car M has built, but it also requires a LOT of talent to drive."

Sure that's a bold statement but at the very least it's encouraging to hear for those of us excited about the new car.

Encouraging, sure. But a statement like the one above makes me seriously question the guys credibility. Do we even know that he has driven every "performance road car M had ever built"? Under similar conditions? On a race track (as is the only true way to test these cars)? Or did he drive it from the Detroit auto show garage to the showroom floor? What are his credentials to make such swooping conclusions? More questions than answers really.


Nothing at all to do with BMWs reputation, as this is not an official press release from an M spokesperson. For all we know, this may have been a water cooler conversation lead by two guys hyped up on red bull. Everything to do with road and tracks credibility for even printing hearsay and smack talk by a un-identified "BMW employee".


I really want to believe this. I'm ready to get out of my e92 M3. But premature is the word here.
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      01-16-2014, 12:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post


Exactly. It requires "a lot of talent" to drive..? This guy must be a near-pro level driver, like most BMW employees I know.
Lol
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      01-16-2014, 12:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Unfortunately, until we actually get to drive the car, there is going to be a lot of mere speculation out there.

Road & Track indicated that it was an actual quotation from a BMW employee. That wouldn't do much for their credibility there if it turned out that they fabricated it word for word.

"It’s without a doubt the highest-performance road car M has built, but it also requires a LOT of talent to drive."

Sure that's a bold statement but at the very least it's encouraging to hear for those of us excited about the new car.


Btw, I did not intend to be too defensive here. I want to thank you for sharing this. I hope I'm not being a tool about it.


Please tell me about your C63! I love that car. How does it feel coming from your M sport f30 335, and are seriously considering switching back to the f80? C63 pics get you bonus points for sure!
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      01-16-2014, 05:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
And that's the beauty of a high reving true //M engine with a high red line that just keeps pulling up until just before redline.

+10

Quote:
Originally Posted by E36toF30 View Post
This doesn't really make sense to me. It seems like German cars (and sporty cars in general) are trending toward being easy to drive fast. That seems to be something that Porsche especially prides itself on these days, and I think it's a mark of a good car. That's something the E9x M3 was really known for, is being easy and confidence inspiring to drive fast. I would think they'd try to aim for the same thing again. If they haven't achieved it, that's disappointing.
BUT it could also make much sence !!!

Until now the credo of the M-GmbH was driveability is more important to be easy fast on track than an high low end torque, because with an linear power output up until the redline itīs easier to drive (fast) on track because you never has more power on the wheels as the car could bring on the track/road ... important in the fastest DSC-off mode, which you need to reach the fastest times !

With the new M3/M4 the change their philosophy totally to more high low end torque as reason to make the car fast(er) ... so it could clearly be the case that on track (DSC off!) you must control the torque getting to the reat wheel to reach the fastest track times ... therefor you nead some experience in driving cars on track ... much more than with the older concept !?

Its also the simple reason, because the old E9xM3 was most of the time faster on track than cars like the C63 AMG with much more hp and torque.
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      01-16-2014, 06:34 AM   #15
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This thread got my attention, particularly in light of what my insurance premiums have done over the past 6 years.

I did a little research and found this chart on the IIHS website (look at the best and worst tab):

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/insu...ss-information

The E92 M3 makes the list of the highest collision loss cars on the market - some of the others are no surprise. Maybe we already have our share of clueless owners. Another hundred pounds of torque should keep us on the list we don't want to be on. Including a driver school in the purchase price might not be a bad idea.
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      01-16-2014, 06:51 AM   #16
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We'll see!!!
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      01-16-2014, 06:59 AM   #17
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marketing. so all the highway 'Stigs' out there start thinking they've found the perfect car.
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      01-16-2014, 09:39 AM   #18
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Calling out the manhood of all of the armchair magazine racers... interesting.
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      01-16-2014, 10:46 AM   #19
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I concur with the hearsay.

I've yet to push my F10 M5 with DSC OFF to even 50% of what I pushed my E60 M5 with DSC OFF. "The torque in these ///M turbo engines is lethal," and this I'm quoting from a BMW ///M Performance School Driving instructor. Given the new M3/M4 is about 1,000lbs lighter than an F10 M5, I'm going to go on a limb and say that it will probably be easier to drive with DSC OFF than an M5. I just can't wait to see what the new EPS is all about since it's the first true ///M car with it and BMW has made bold claims that it feels even better than the E92 M3 steering, which I find really hard to believe. Can't wait to drive one.
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      01-16-2014, 10:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifecrisis View Post
This thread got my attention, particularly in light of what my insurance premiums have done over the past 6 years.

I did a little research and found this chart on the IIHS website (look at the best and worst tab):

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/insu...ss-information

The E92 M3 makes the list of the highest collision loss cars on the market - some of the others are no surprise. Maybe we already have our share of clueless owners. Another hundred pounds of torque should keep us on the list we don't want to be on. Including a driver school in the purchase price might not be a bad idea.
Recall that part of that number (one would suspect the greater part, given what it purports to calculate) relates to average loss per claim.

The cars on that "worst list" are all pricey, hence part of the reason for their placement there. My guess is there isnt a lot of racing in the S-class segment, but every dented bumper is going to cost the equivalent of 3 F-150's to replace

By contrast, the "best" cars are not terribly expensive and, it seems, are all 'working vehicles' (trucks) where drivers arent going to bother getting many cosmetic things fixed.

BUT, agreed, there are all sorts of jackasses driving their M3s (or Californias, or A8s, or whatever) like jackasses which means that, even if an M3 is cheaper to repair than a Ferrari or R8, there are enough accidents to drive the other part of the equation and keep the M3 on the list.
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      01-16-2014, 11:11 AM   #21
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High power, high torque, RWD, low weight cars are always more difficult to drive. ESPECIALLY vehicles that are turbocharged and have torque "pop" on.

The m3 is going to be around a 12 second even quarter mile vehicle. Possibly high 11's. This is ALOT of power and, yes, in a lightweight RWD vehicle is going to be beyond what most people can handle with traction control off.

It's also going to change directions faster due to additional chassis stiffening and it looks like M may have made this vehicle a bit more track oriented as well.

The e46 m3 was a lot of car for a lot of owners (especially younger/inexperience owners) to handle.

And the f8x platform is a helluva lot more performance than an e46.
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      01-16-2014, 11:13 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I I just can't wait to see what the new EPS is all about since it's the first true ///M car with it and BMW has made bold claims that it feels even better than the E92 M3 steering, which I find really hard to believe. Can't wait to drive one.
This claim was huge. It's another thing to say they benchmarked the e9x m3's steering and feel they've achieved that with EPS. I expected that claim and I expected it to mean that they nearly reached e9x levels.

To say they beat it indicates they feel it's superior or at least even, which would be a mega-accomplishment with EPS.

Porsche put enormous effort into their 991 platform in getting the steering to feel similar to the 997.2 given the longer platform of the 991. They reached it 95%.

If BMW either learned from Porsche or otherwise achieved similar levels, it's going to start tearing down the "EPS is always ruinous to steering" myth.
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