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      05-14-2014, 05:02 AM   #1
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Autocar Compares F82 M4 vs C63 507 Edition

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Just saw this on autocars site, the video hasn't been put on YouTube at the time I'm writing this but I'll embed it when it's uploaded.


Last edited by fndrsn; 05-14-2014 at 06:12 AM.
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      05-14-2014, 06:02 AM   #2
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Thanks for that. He didn't seem to be a huge fan of the previous M3 when it came out either:
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      05-14-2014, 06:37 AM   #3
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interesting. Thanks for posting!
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      05-14-2014, 07:09 AM   #4
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He complains about the throttle response but doesn't say what throttle mode it's in...
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      05-14-2014, 07:23 AM   #5
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Hmmm
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      05-14-2014, 07:27 AM   #6
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According to the video C63 and M3 E92 is a better car than M4 because of the engine/throttle response but let's not forget the next C63 is also getting Turbocharged.
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      05-14-2014, 07:48 AM   #7
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Agreed. This is the video I've been trying to find on YouTube.

The engine in the AMG is sweet beyond belief. I'm not crazy about that rough exhaust note that a lot of the AMGs possess though (I know I'm definitely in the minority).
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      05-14-2014, 08:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCsquared View Post
Agreed. This is the video I've been trying to find on YouTube.

The engine in the AMG is sweet beyond belief. I'm not crazy about that rough exhaust note that a lot of the AMGs possess though (I know I'm definitely in the minority).
Yes you're definitely in the minority in regards to the sound of the AMG

I'm really curious why so many folks on here are so eager to defend BMW? My thinking (and I suspect a few auto journalists like Sutcliffe's thinking) is that the less enthusiam we show and the less we settle for the changes BMW is imposing on us, the more likely BMW will build a better car (competition version can't come soon enough). Today more so than ever consumers can shape the direction of a brand.

And let's not use regulations and emissions as a scapegoat because every other OEM has to play by the same rules and in fact the true measure is how OEMs adapt to the new rules while still keeping its core DNA.

Nobody is saying BMW didn't build a great car, what some are questioning is did they build the best car they could build? Still inconclusive of course.
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      05-14-2014, 08:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCsquared View Post
Agreed. This is the video I've been trying to find on YouTube.

The engine in the AMG is sweet beyond belief. I'm not crazy about that rough exhaust note that a lot of the AMGs possess though (I know I'm definitely in the minority).
Yes you're definitely in the minority in regards to the sound of the AMG

I'm really curious why so many folks on here are so eager to defend BMW? My thinking (and I suspect a few auto journalists like Sutcliffe's thinking) is that the less enthusiam we show and the less we settle for the changes BMW is imposing on us, the more likely BMW will build a better car (competition version can't come soon enough). Today more so than ever consumers can shape the direction of a brand.

And let's not use regulations and emissions as a scapegoat because every other OEM has to play by the same rules and in fact the true measure is how OEMs adapt to the new rules while still keeping its core DNA.

Nobody is saying BMW didn't build a great car, what some are questioning is did they build the best car they could build? Still inconclusive of course.
We're on an M3 forum after all and it's important to remember the opinions expressed on this board only represent a tiny percentage of owners. I mean we're on a forum talking about cars, only enthusiasts (for the most part) would go as far to being part of this board.
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      05-14-2014, 08:40 AM   #10
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Factors effect people differently. For me, a lighter, less expensive, better handling, better fuel economy car with a more refined interior and better torque that is faster 0-60 (think he quoted the wrong time for a DCT car BTW) is the better car. For me, paying more and giving all that up for exhaust sound and sharper throttle and a few other tidbits would be lunacy.

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      05-14-2014, 08:52 AM   #11
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If the Black Series had a DCT I'd seriously consider it. That old gearbox kills it for me.
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      05-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiplee View Post
Factors effect people differently. For me, a lighter, less expensive, better handling, better fuel economy car with a more refined interior and better torque that is faster 0-60 (think he quoted the wrong time for a DCT car BTW) is the better car. For me, paying more and giving all that up for exhaust sound and sharper throttle and a few other tidbits would be lunacy.
Very true, all of those points are exactly why M cars have been so sought after and better than the competition. However, M cars of the past were all those things and at the same time possessed the one trait which is what we enthusiast really wish for: they were EXCITING. They make you feel alive and made you truly enjoy the experience of DRIVING just to drive.

It's questionable if the M cars of today including the new M4 have lost sight of that. The driving experience/excitement factor is arguably one of the last reasons to buy a M car now. Though I agree that being "lighter, better handling, better fuel economy car with a more refined interior and better torque" are still plenty of reasons to buy a M4. Just different strokes for different folks I suppose.
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      05-14-2014, 10:00 AM   #13
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Very true, all of those points are exactly why M cars have been so sought after and better than the competition. However, M cars of the past were all those things and at the same time possessed the one trait which is what we enthusiast really wish for: they were EXCITING. They make you feel alive and made you truly enjoy the experience of DRIVING just to drive.

It's questionable if the M cars of today including the new M4 have lost sight of that. The driving experience/excitement factor is arguably one of the last reasons to buy a M car now. Though I agree that being "lighter, better handling, better fuel economy car with a more refined interior and better torque" are still plenty of reasons to buy a M4. Just different strokes for different folks I suppose.
I agree that it's questionable whether driving experience/excitement is a primary factor for you. I'm probably BMW's target audience for this new M3/4. I think much of the BMW line up is now targeted at average consumers vice purists, and that's me, an average consumer. I've always lusted after an M3 but never owned one; never even driven one. I'm buying mine without a test drive. I've been a turbo enthusiast my whole driving life and I don't mind muted exhaust notes. In fact I love them. What matters to me when I spend money is to get the most bang for the buck; the best of all possible worlds. That is torque on tap from an engine that won't penalize me with 15mpg every time I move the car. I want comfort, versatility, dare I say "practicality" if such a thing exists in the $60k+ realm. I just don't know who is doing that better this year than BMW. Those are all my important factors though and yes, "different strokes", "to each his/her own", etc.
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      05-14-2014, 10:26 AM   #14
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Weird.....he said the benz had better steering and the M had more torque.
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      05-14-2014, 10:33 AM   #15
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I agree that it's questionable whether driving experience/excitement is a primary factor for you. I'm probably BMW's target audience for this new M3/4. I think much of the BMW line up is now targeted at average consumers vice purists, and that's me, an average consumer. I've always lusted after an M3 but never owned one; never even driven one. I'm buying mine without a test drive. I've been a turbo enthusiast my whole driving life and I don't mind muted exhaust notes. In fact I love them. What matters to me when I spend money is to get the most bang for the buck; the best of all possible worlds. That is torque on tap from an engine that won't penalize me with 15mpg every time I move the car. I want comfort, versatility, dare I say "practicality" if such a thing exists in the $60k+ realm. I just don't know who is doing that better this year than BMW. Those are all my important factors though and yes, "different strokes", "to each his/her own", etc.

But isn't that why the 435i with the M sport pckg exists? To my understanding the M4 is supposed to be catered to the niche, to the enthusiasts. The rest of the lineup already caters to everyone else. While I do look at MPGs it's probably the last thing I'd check on my "important to me" list when looking at a car.

Judging by the plethora of M5/M6s sitting on BMW dealerships I'm not sure this is the best strategy for BMW because the enthusiasts will go to another brand who puts them first. And the average consumer won't really feel the need to buy the M version because if you're judging by logic rather than emotion M cars make little sense.
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      05-14-2014, 10:41 AM   #16
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But isn't that why the 435i with the M sport pckg exists? To my understanding the M4 is supposed to be catered to the niche, to the enthusiasts. The rest of the lineup already caters to everyone else. While I do look at MPGs it's probably the last thing I'd check on my "important to me" list when looking at a car.

Judging by the plethora of M5/M6s sitting on BMW dealerships I'm not sure this is the best strategy for BMW because the enthusiasts will go to another brand who puts them first. And the average consumer won't really feel the need to buy the M version because if you're judging by logic rather than emotion M cars make little sense.
Perhaps. My original order was placed for a 2015 435i Gran Coupe with M-Sport and Nav and M brake upgrade, etc. MSRP got too close to the real M car so I changed the order. Every package, every option, every price point seemed to be precisely engineered to guide me to rationalize the next higher priced choice. All were bang-for-the-buck based decisions, almost as if the lower priced items were just decoy products. Now my M3 is optioned to nearly $75k and the only thing stopping me from going to a pre-owned M5 is practicality and utility. It's all a big consumerism mind game if you ask me.
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      05-14-2014, 10:44 AM   #17
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He likes the C63 steering better and also likes the tossability of the C63 chassis. What really does it for him, is he really seems to dislike the S55.

The 507 is a fantastic car. Only thing that lets it down a little is the transmission. Otherwise the entire package is amazing.
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      05-14-2014, 10:44 AM   #18
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Perhaps. My original order was placed for a 2015 435i Gran Coupe with M-Sport and Nav and M brake upgrade, etc. MSRP got too close to the real M car so I changed the order. Every package, every option, every price point seemed to be precisely engineered to guide me to rationalize the next higher priced choice. All were bang-for-the-buck based decisions, almost as if the lower priced items were just decoy products. Now my M3 is optioned to nearly $75k and the only thing stopping me from going to a pre-owned M5 is practicality and utility. It's all a big consumerism mind game if you ask me.
Okay this I agree with. The 435i M Sport is too expensive lol. You might as well but the M4. Good call
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      05-14-2014, 10:52 AM   #19
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Okay this I agree with. The 435i M Sport is too expensive lol. You might as well but the M4. Good call
Especially when compared to the M3. I needed 4 doors so until M4 GC comes around, I can't touch the M4. Of course the $57,300 military sales pricing on the M3 didn't hurt either. But now I'm just gloating.
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      05-14-2014, 10:54 AM   #20
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I agree that it's questionable whether driving experience/excitement is a primary factor for you. I'm probably BMW's target audience for this new M3/4. I think much of the BMW line up is now targeted at average consumers vice purists, and that's me, an average consumer.
I agree with this. But if you mention this, some people seem to get upset. It is the truth.
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      05-14-2014, 10:56 AM   #21
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He complains about the throttle response but doesn't say what throttle mode it's in...
And says the C63 steering is better but does not say what steering mode he is on. He's one of the few reviewers this far that complains about throttle response also. This video screams bias, he even admits that he "loves" the C63
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      05-14-2014, 11:02 AM   #22
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I think I am a pretty good person to comment on this being I have owned both a 2013 M3 and a 2013 C63..

I had a 2013 M3 and totaled it. I know it doesn't look that bad from the pics, but the frame of the car was not straight and once that happens on a race car, it will never drive correct again. They set it on a laser jig and measured exactly. I was so upset being it only had a couple thousand miles on it.. just ended it's break in period and I had a little too much fun late at night. road was clear and it was late, no one in sight.. tried my hand at drifting around a round about and forgot traction was off as I had it in launch mode prior.. spun out through a couple light poles in the round about at around 2AM.

anyways, all the dealers were playing games and being they stopped production on the 2013 M3, no one would trade and everyone wanted above sticker from the couple that were left out there..




So I went with a Mercedes c63 coupe to hold me over as this was the closest thing to replace the M with performance wise..



First, let me start with saying that I was a Mercedes fan before I ordered this car. Having read and watched mostly all positive reviews, plus Jeremy Clarkson calling this car an "axe murderer with headlights" I was sold and ordered the car blind.

Mercedes service is terrible. There are rude and snotty people at every luxury car dealer, but the main point is, everything is la carte with Mercedes. Comes with nothing. Not like bmw that covers oil brakes etc.. Mercedes charges you top dollar and gives you nothing. They are more money in every respect compared to a BMW.. More to insure, More $$ for registration by over 100 bucks.

For a quick example, after 1500 miles, Mercedes said it needed oil. took it to the dealer and they said its normal for these AMG engines to burn oil. I am not driving it hard enough to melt the seals the service guy said. Now if I drove the car any harder, I would kill myself... They charged me 100 bucks to top it off with oil and sent me on my way. You would think that would have been covered, But it wasn't. Oh yes, I put up a fight and got no where...

Not to mention, the failure Mercedes made to fix a couple other problems the car was having. Just bad service all the way around. I was told by a Mercedes salesmen that in Germany, Mercedes head is so big, they don't care what anyone else is doing with their cars because they think they are the best.

The Best? Well, I don't think so. The interior of the C63 in my opinion is very plain and dated.. Almost cheap feeling. No nice finishings or extra details aside from AMG badging in the seats. illuminated AMG door sills I paid a lot for.. The only thing and I mean the ONLY thing this car has going for it is the hand built engine. That I will say is good quality and sounds nice. It is not a 6.3 even tho they mark it as one.. false advertising I say as the engine is a 6.2L.

The c63 is amazing and fast in a straight line.. But so is a mustang 5.0 for a little more than quarter the price.

I was so disappointed from the day I drove off the lot with the c63..
The thing is, BMW gives you so much bang for your buck. Their attention to details far exceeds Mercedes. I am not speaking for all car models, I am simply comparing c63 to M3.

Mercedes c63 has a very uncomfortable ride for a daily driving car compared to the M3. I read that the c63 was better for daily driving and boy were they wrong.

You would think that Mercedes would even give you a rear slip diff standard and they don't.. they want to charge you for every single little thing.. The M3 2013 comes with carbon fiber trim.. Mercedes wants $2800 for carbon. My car came with UGLY wood trim that I had painted custom to black within a week of having the car. Mercedes lease turn in fee is $595 vs BMW's $350..

Not to mention, when Mercedes gets you in a lease, boy do they want to keep you there.. I have broken several leases in my day. This is the first time I have ever leased a car and the starting payoff of the car was not on the discounted price. They calculate the monthly payments based on the discounted price, BUT the payoff on the car the day you sign is for the full MSRP. There for it is next to impossible to get out of the car.

The handling of the C63 is not so great compared to a M3. Very heavy in the rear for the c63..

The trans is HORRIBLE in the C63... Mercedes calls is a "Multi Clutch" Gear box to once again, fool people. It is NOT a dual clutch. The c63 Multi clutch just means you have a wet startup clutch, that's it. There are no two clutches working together. The car is incredibly delayed on shifting and never listens. I kept thinking to myself "how can Mercedes still produce a car like this for this kind of price when everyone else has already switched to newer technology?" BECAUSE THEY CAN!

Lots of plastic on the interior, not much tech, Mercedes kept it very simple with this car. I read so many reviews and comments on forums of how much people love the c63. These people must have never personally owned a BMW because if they did, I feel they would never look back.

So I broke the lease, took a HUGE hit all so I can get into an M4 that is currently at port waiting to be shipped. I don't think I have ever been so unhappy with a performance car. I have had a few and this by far was my least favorite.

So when I watch this review above even though it was a 507 package c63 which only unlocks the engine, different shifter fabric, steering wheel fabric and a vented hood that is just for looks, this guy must be smoking crack to think it's better. with all the toys the M4 has... The c63 is only good for it's engine, has nothing else to offer. Any BMW M is such a well balanced car and not only drives around a track faster, but is quick in a straight line and performs everything very well, The M is the complete package. Who cares about straight line performance?

I would rather have a car that does everything really well, instead of one thing just great.

Really sorry to offend any benz fans out there. I truly think benz pays off many reviewers to bolster the review of their cars.. They are powerful enough to do so and wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Call me crazy, but I feel the M3 I had was the most well rounded car I have ever had.

Last edited by dondula; 05-14-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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