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      05-21-2014, 08:15 PM   #1
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Car Magazine Comparison test: M4 VS 911S VS F-type S (Scans)

Enjoy the read!
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      05-21-2014, 08:19 PM   #2
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Magazines seem to keep on comparing the m4/M3 to 2 or 2+2 seater sports cars, which IMO is a little unfair, or they have too high expectations of the BMW? Anyway, this hints that the m4/M3 is head and shoulders above its current direct competition (no matter what Sutcliffe fom Autocar thinks). For a car that can do it all, it's probably close to perfect...
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      05-21-2014, 08:36 PM   #3
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So 991 first, M4 second, F-Type third. That shouldn't be a disappointment. My guess is I would say the same, at least until I drive the new M.
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      05-21-2014, 08:50 PM   #4
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Thanks for sharing and that was a good read.
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      05-21-2014, 08:53 PM   #5
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2015 BMW M4  [4.83]
thanks for taking the time to share this!
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      05-21-2014, 08:55 PM   #6
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Wow this quote says it all.

"The M4 is a great car to drive but it feels built to hit numbers rather than to push a driver's buttons."
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      05-21-2014, 08:58 PM   #7
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Hmmm..definitely more critical of the M4 than I had expected.
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      05-21-2014, 09:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Wow this quote says it all.

"The M4 is a great car to drive but it feels built to hit numbers rather than to push a driver's buttons."
Yup. That is far from encouraging.
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      05-21-2014, 09:10 PM   #9
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Very informative read imo. Thanks a lot for posting.

The reviewer sure knows how to drive and to express himself; he was among the judges of Evo Car of the Year 2011 when 1M finished an impressive third only behind a McLaren and 911 GT3 RS and ahead of many supercars. He was not among the judges (like Catchpole or C. Harris) who picked the 1M either as their number one or two and also ahead of the Cayman R; he indeed favored the Cayman R at that ECOTY vs 1M and had a few things to say against it. Now, here I see that he couldn't help but recall the 1M as what he described:

"...M Division's brilliant and boisterous little warm-up act for the M4." Agreed 100% here as my personal conviction was always one that 1M was just a science project, a test mule filled with enthusiasm of its engineers and put in real world test by its buyers for the sake of future F8X cars and others all with turbo engines.

At the end of his review, when he concludes about the M4 he directly compares them as "I also think the 1-series M - which was knocked out in a hurry with bits lying around the workshop - has more personality and is more engaging to drive, even if - or perhaps because - it feels scarier at the limit."

NOW that is big! These are very significant and telling words for me at least, especially remembering that he was not even the biggest fan of the 1M when he had a good seat time with it!

Also, because absolutely the kind of stuff I was suspecting from the F8X development but also was trying to keep the hopes high, since I myself also consider to pass to a M3 very soon, but that is due to some pressing family and work related needs rather than any kind of real complaints about the 1M.

So, this reviewer imo dropped the biggest question, biggest suspicion which encompasses all less important weaknesses (sound, response, steering feel, huge size etc.): is the new M3/M4 engaging, exciting and entertaining enough to make us forget a 1M/E9XM3/E46M3/Z4M/Z3M ...?

We know already that it is an accomplished package with astonishing engineering but that alone simply doesn't answer THE question and this particular reviewer like Sutcliffe before chose a rival over it, and he did precisely because of that, alleged lack of engagement or excitement.

God, how much I would love to test drive one before ordering!

EDIT: My intuition tells me that if I go ahead and order the M3, especially without a test drive, I should leave it as less tech laden or as less 'capable' as possible, meaning no CCB, no adaptive dampers, no DCT and whatever else is possible, might be money well saved! Sometimes in order to reach real greatness one needs to have some weaknesses as well. A fully optioned M3 might be too sophisticated for its own good...maybe.
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Last edited by ozinaldo; 05-21-2014 at 10:02 PM.
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      05-21-2014, 09:34 PM   #10
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I think the M4 had its work cut out for it to impress this reviewer since he started his piece bemoaning the death of NA engines and recalling with fondness some of the great ///M engines of yore.

What chance did it have?

I think the M4 grew on him a bit after he explored its capabilities. Still it was bound not to push the right buttons because it delivered its power more capably and evenly compared with the engines he liked to wax eloquent about.

It comes down to preferences. What doesn't push his buttons, will push others. He loved the previous models because they returned so much joy 2% of the time, it compensated for their failings the other 98%. This doesn't suit me for one.

I just get a feeling about these new ///M's that they are on the right side of a curve that a lot of manufactures are going to miss when it comes to continually putting out larger displacement thirsty V8's. Just a hunch that BMW went with the right zig, whilst many of their competitors zagged.
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      05-21-2014, 09:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW View Post
Magazines seem to keep on comparing the m4/M3 to 2 or 2+2 seater sports cars, which IMO is a little unfair, or they have too high expectations of the BMW? Anyway, this hints that the m4/M3 is head and shoulders above its current direct competition (no matter what Sutcliffe fom Autocar thinks). For a car that can do it all, it's probably close to perfect...
The M4 is a 2+2 seater isn't it? So why is it unfair to compare it to the 911 or V6 F-type?

Also, if you actually read his review, you'll see that he preferred the 911 to the M4 and believed that the Jaguar compared relatively well with the M4....I want to like the M4 just as much as you do, but that doesn't give me or you license to misinterpret other people's opinions.

The M4 may not have all of the race-track characteristics of a porsche 911, but its still of the "sports car" family, despite its added emphasis on every-day driving and comfort. The F-type and low-end 911's are very valid comparisons and are likely to be cross-shopped by potential buyers.

Last edited by Patronus86; 05-21-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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      05-21-2014, 09:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
I think the M4 had its work cut out for it to impress this reviewer since he started his piece bemoaning the death of NA engines and recalling with fondness some of the great ///M engines of yore.

What chance did it have?

I think the M4 grew on him a bit after he explored its capabilities. Still it was bound not to push the right buttons because it delivered its power more capably and evenly compared with the engines he liked to wax eloquent about.

It comes down to preferences. What doesn't push his buttons, will push others. He loved the previous models because they returned so much joy 2% of the time, it compensated for their failings the other 98%. This doesn't suit me for one.

I just get a feeling about these new ///M's that they are on the right side of a curve that a lot of manufactures are going to miss when it comes to continually putting out larger displacement thirsty V8's. Just a hunch that BMW went with the right zig, whilst many of their competitors zagged.
I would agree 100% if he wouldn't also compare it to 1M! As I quoted and commented above just before your post. Or if he wouldn't also favor the supposedly inferior but also FI engine of the Jaguar (he doesn't exactly say that but it is there between the lines). I am afraid it is not only the turbo character that made him wishing more from M4 but the way that the car drives, as a whole.
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      05-21-2014, 09:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
I think the M4 had its work cut out for it to impress this reviewer since he started his piece bemoaning the death of NA engines and recalling with fondness some of the great ///M engines of yore.

What chance did it have?

I think the M4 grew on him a bit after he explored its capabilities. Still it was bound not to push the right buttons because it delivered its power more capably and evenly compared with the engines he liked to wax eloquent about.

It comes down to preferences. What doesn't push his buttons, will push others. He loved the previous models because they returned so much joy 2% of the time, it compensated for their failings the other 98%. This doesn't suit me for one.

I just get a feeling about these new ///M's that they are on the right side of a curve that a lot of manufactures are going to miss when it comes to continually putting out larger displacement thirsty V8's. Just a hunch that BMW went with the right zig, whilst many of their competitors zagged.
Surely you will admit that "buttons" vary from individual to individual. If not, you're being presumptuous with your often posted "2%" quip. It's ridiculous in the eyes of those who find a car that they've actually driven, unlike you that hasn't driven an M4, pushes the right "buttons" every time the car is started and doesn't stop pushing the right "buttons" until the engine is shut off. In my book, that's 100% of the time which is unbeatable.
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      05-21-2014, 09:58 PM   #14
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It's the F-series curse. These cars have for some stepped over the fuzzy line between the mainly sporty and mainly luxury feel. They are every bit as capabable as the predecessors, more actually but they aren't visceral enough there's too much isolation and softness. Not that they ever been Lotus Elises but they have had a good dose of visceral feel and excitement mixed with that magic BMW compliant quality feel and performance. It remains to be seen for each of us how we adapt. I'm still willing to give it an honest go.

I looks like we need to harden ourself against head to head losses for the car though. Three cars has been stacked against it this far, Porsche 991S, Benz C63 and Jag F-Type. It has lost against all. It's unfamiliar territory for an M3 just as it was for the M5. It doesn't mean much for each individual though.

Last edited by solstice; 05-21-2014 at 10:03 PM.
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      05-21-2014, 10:09 PM   #15
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So for only 33,000* more (+ Porsche options) I can buy a better 2 seater sports car** than the M4....which isn't a 2 seater sports car.

Ok then. Noted.

*edit: As @paddy335 pointed out, it IS 23k, not 33k. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=46 which is excellent. Sigh. anyway, no need to hide from my inability to do math, so laugh away y'all.

**edit: I know there are seats in the back, but I am talking seats for people who would not have been able to play a munchkin in the wizard of oz.
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      05-21-2014, 10:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
Surely you will admit that "buttons" vary from individual to individual. If not, you're being presumptuous with your often posted "2%" quip. It's ridiculous in the eyes of those who find a car that they've actually driven, unlike you that hasn't driven an M4, pushes the right "buttons" every time the car is started and doesn't stop pushing the right "buttons" until the engine is shut off. In my book, that's 100% of the time which is unbeatable.
That's fantastic that your recently purchased e92 happens to be the best car ever manufactured. You should be happily that the new ///M's are both a POS - it just makes you all the more smart for buying the greatest ///M ever right before they became extinct. The M3 and M4 are likely to go begging on the showroom floors while the motoring elite (you know, the true enthusiasts like you) come around begging for a ride in your unbeatable M3 that returns unbridled joy 100% of the time.
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      05-21-2014, 10:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
That's fantastic that your recently purchased e92 happens to be the best car ever manufactured. You should be happily that the new ///M's are both a POS - it just makes you all the more smart for buying the greatest ///M ever right before they became extinct. The M3 and M4 are likely to go begging on the showroom floors while the motoring elite (you know, the true enthusiasts like you) come around begging for a ride in your unbeatable M3 that returns unbridled joy 100% of the time.
If it trips my trigger, what should it matter to you?

Attempting to words into other's mouths won't make your preference more compelling to others. You seem to take diversity of thought and preference personally. Get over yourself. This is a forum.
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      05-21-2014, 10:30 PM   #18
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Of course the 911 won. Its the best all around car (the 991 generation) car in the world and possibly ever built. Its also faster on and off the track than either the M4 or Jag despite having a good amount less hp and far less tq than either and is the most precise handling tool of the bunch as well.
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      05-21-2014, 10:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
Surely you will admit that "buttons" vary from individual to individual. If not, you're being presumptuous with your often posted "2%" quip. It's ridiculous in the eyes of those who find a car that they've actually driven, unlike you that hasn't driven an M4, pushes the right "buttons" every time the car is started and doesn't stop pushing the right "buttons" until the engine is shut off. In my book, that's 100% of the time which is unbeatable.
WOW!! You drove an E92 M3? You must be a true enthusiast! You'll probably never buy one of those new fangled M's. BMW mourns.
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      05-21-2014, 10:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It's the F-series curse. These cars have for some stepped over the fuzzy line between the mainly sporty and mainly luxury feel. They are every bit as capabable as the predecessors, more actually but they aren't visceral enough there's too much isolation and softness. Not that they ever been Lotus Elises but they have had a good dose of visceral feel and excitement mixed with that magic BMW compliant quality feel and performance. It remains to be seen for each of us how we adapt. I'm still willing to give it an honest go.

I looks like we need to harden ourself against head to head losses for the car though. Three cars has been stacked against it this far, Porsche 991S, Benz C63 and Jag F-Type. It has lost against all. It's unfamiliar territory for an M3 just as it was for the M5. It doesn't mean much for each individual though.
There's no reason to be overly pessimistic at this juncture as there will be many more reviews and comparos down the road.

There's always the "special" variant option in the bag.
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      05-21-2014, 10:34 PM   #21
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Enjoyed the review. Thanks for posting it.
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      05-21-2014, 10:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
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WOW!! You drove an E92 M3? You must be a true enthusiast! You'll probably never buy one of those new fangled M's. BMW mourns.
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