Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio
i am not here trying to start another debate.
rather maybe trying to help to understand a different view point, on what that guy was talking about. even if you disagree with the view point.
its clear they are not the "same" engines.they have many different parts. we all can come to a agreement on that.
i am not sure about all the M cars in the past. but recent (E46-E92-E60) M generations the M engines were CLEARLY different machines (engine).
these new engines are made by the same people on the same plant as everything else(maybe not designed by them) . the engines are made with less "love" if you will. It would almost be a blaspheme for a M car to even share the same displacement or block/size of other non M cars. i have never seen a car company make much dramatic changes before in recent history.
Its CLEAR the E60 M5 was packing a different beast over the non m 5 series. it was CLEAR the E90 m was packing a different engine over a 335i or 328i. even though the E46 was a I6 engine, it was worlds better than any I6 engine BMW was making at that time.
sure you can give me all specs and different parts on the new M4 engine, and why it is different.
but the fact that this is even up for a debate sums it all up. there was ZERO debate on the E60 M5 vs 5 series. Zero debate on the E90 engine vs 335i engine. because the engines were much more dramatically different.
but with all that said. i honestly feel BMW can no long make engines like that because its way to costly. putting V10 engines in a dam sedan is quote Frankly insane. or a gas guzzling high revving M V8. the party if over in that sense.
i feel BMW is going in a direction where they should be going. making engines and cars that turn profit. and please most of the population. people usually just look at specs on paper any how.
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Some minor fact checking would help immensely EZIO
E30 M3 - S14 Engine:
"The BMW S14 is a straight-4 DOHC piston engine which was used in the E30 M3.
It is based on the M10 block and the M88 head with two cylinders removed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S14
E36 M3 - S50 Engine:
"The S50 is higher performance version of the M50 which was used in the M3.
Like the M50, it has an iron block and aluminum head with four valves per cylinder."
Upgrades over the M50 include:
-Individual throttle plates for each cylinder
-Increased compression ratio to 11.3:1
-Advanced BMW/Siemens MSS50 engine management system able to compute 20 million instructions per second
-Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust strokes
-Lightweight pistons
-Dual-mass flywheel
-Graphite-coated conrods
-Larger inlet valves
-Second oil pump.
S50B30US:
"The E36 M3 for Canada and USA is powered by a 3.0L
tuned version of the M50 which produced 240 hp (179 kW).[8] This engine was based on the M50TU out of the 325 but was bored out to yield greater displacement and utilized the same cylinder head but with more aggressive cams and valvetrain."
Wikipedia doesn't even have a separate page for the S50, it's considered a version of the M50 engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M50#S50
E46 M3 - S54 Engine:
"The S54 is the high performance version of the M50 and was used in the E46 M3, Z3 M Coupé / Roadster, and the E85 Z4 M Roadster / E86 M Coupe.
The S54 is technically an evolution of the iron-block S50B32. It shares few major components with the S50 and differences include:
-Increased cylinder bore to 87 mm (from 86.4 mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246 cc (from 3,201 cc)
-Modified camshafts
-High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
-Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
-More advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
-Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction
-One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight
-Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S54B32#S54
So, as history shows, all previous M3 engines, apart from the S65, are based on BMW AG engines and cylinder Blocks. In fact just two different BMW AG engines as the E46 S54 engine also is evolution of the M50 based S50.
And the E36 S50B30US is just a tuned version of the M50. Same block (larger bore) and same cylinder head as the M50, just more aggressive cams.
Compared to the S16, S50 and S54, the S55 follows that same tradition of BMW AG based engine but substantially modified for BMW M use.
Whether it will be as special as the S54 remains to be seen, but it's performance and power delivery characteristics seems to be just as distant from the N55 as the S54 was from the M50 or contemporary M54 engine.
So, instead of seeing the S55 as a case of breaking the tradition of BMW M engines origin, it's the other way round. The S65 and S85 were the two engines that broke with previous BMW M engine origin. They are the ones that stand out as truly unique and breaking the tradition. The S55 (and S63) are once again back to "based on BMW AG engine" tradition for M GmbH.