Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice
So what you are saying is that the competition is getting better faster than BMW and thereby narrowing the gap? Maybe, and that's the core of any complaint made about the F8X. That it's not a universally significantly better car than it's predecessor. I agree with that, it's not but it's still the best engine ( yes I think it's better than the S63 ) and chassis in BMW's lineup, both separately and as a package. It's an M3 and the competition seem more interested in pleasing it's traditional customers than coming at the M3 when it finally has opened up some weak spots. I'm actually a bit disappointed in that, I think the competition easily could have raised their game by just paying some attention to what M3 driver's prefer. Maybe next generation.
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Solstice, much as anyone can like a total stranger on the interweb, I like you. You are smart and thoughtful and your comments on these forums are very helpful (even if you have misguided hockey loyalties....) but man oh man are you sometimes a glass is half empty kind of guy
i look at it like this: when the E46 and prior M3s were around, there was really no competition to speak of. Between BMW and its rivals, there was a very wide, clear, easy to see and in fact impossible to miss gap. The target was clear.
Over the next generations, the competition moved on that gap. The C63 became much better. The RS4 became much better. They were actually legitimate competitors to the M3. Sure, M3 was generally better....but not necessarily. Again, by the mid cycle C63 some people preferred it to the M3 - which would have been unheard of with the E46 or earlier. But, on the whole, E9x was still far enough in front that there was a clear gap and target for others to aim for.
The same thing is happening now. Others are moving on that gap
I guess one could say (pessimistically) that over the last 2 generations the M3 has not improved as much as the others, but I think that is unfair. How much farther can BMW go? At the end of the day, these are cars. The goal is pretty simple: make it go fast, handle well and look nice. For a long time some car cos just focussed on 'go fast' whereas BMW knew it took all 3. BMW dominated, they scratched their heads. Now, though, those others are trying to hit those 3 points. And they are getting better.
But if you are BMW and you already nailed those 3 where do you go? A little faster? Sure - but at some point physics says you can only go so fast. Handle better? Ok, but the faster you go the harder handling becomes. Look nice? Yes, but with 4 wheels and kidney grilles there are only so many things you can do (especially as you let function dictate form and you get various design elements used to create downward force like all the venting, etc)
So just by virtue of having had the magic formula much earlier than its rivals, BMW can only go so far. By contrast, if you are Ford and you previously built a car that went like stink but handled like a pig, well, improve the handling and look at thr dramatic leap you have made. People will be excited. If you are Chevrolet and your previously awful corvette now goes fast, drives well AND looks very nice people will positively cream themselves. If you are Audi or MB, maybe you actually hit the cycle and get all 3. Then it becomes a very personal debate as to which is best....
BMW? They get the 'so, what have you done for me lately?' response. Which is fine enough - front runners get that kind of attention - but, by definition, they have less room to go. 'Oh sure you are faster, more efficient, lighter, look lovely, loaded with tech but you don't
sound the way I want you to sound'. Or 'you are too crazy and raw' or 'you are too clinical'. The front runner is always the target even when the complaints are often self-conflicting and nonsensical (again,moistness Sutcliffe or EVO saying in review 1 the car is only good at its limits and then in review 2 saying it can't handle its limits....).*
So, long answer but I don't fault BMW for not moving the ball further.
As for the competition, their challenge is to meet BMW while still appealing to their traditional markets. Guys like us may be happy that a corvette or mustang now knows what a corner looks like (or that there is more to racing than a drag strip) but the traditional buyer wants POWER. So they have to do both. The classic mercedes buyer will be all 'row my own gears? What am I? Poor?' So MB doesn't sell that to him.
But, on that point, I agree with you completely. I would love it if those other companies came right at BMW and made a better M3 than BMW makes. How could I lose there?
*for what it is worth, I think TG and Clarkson are right here on what BMW is doing. As a company, BMW knows the next place to be way out in front is in the mass market electric sports car. The i8 is that game changer. It is the E30 M3 of our time. Once again, their rivals are chasing behind them.