[myzmak]

Originally Posted by solstice

Name an example of current good competition?

Audi: Nope, still heavy and no RWD.

Audi exterior design has picked up big time from previous years. The A5 is fantastic looking (IMHO, an RS5 actually looks much sexier than an F82). We are also a long way aways from the mid-90s when they were lumbering beasts. Sure, still not as good as an ///M but they are getting better.

Benz: Nope, still heavy and no MT or DCT.

Again, the new C63 will give the F8X a genuine run for its money. Based on what I know now, I happen to agree with both of your comments as to why my leaning would be strongly ///M but, again, the new AMG is much improved compared to the old one. Frankly, even the post-LCI old W204 beat the E9X in a test or two so we should not be surprised when some people (even some not named Sutcliffe) like the W205 even more.

Lexus: Nope, still heavy, butt ugly and no MT or DCT.

Hence its getting beat down each time. But, again, my point was that things are getting better out there. Not that the competition has put BMW down into the dust, never to rise again, just that they are getting better. All these companies are pushing BMW harder and harder - and I think that is the key.

Jaguar: please, it's still British, kind of.

That new little car they have (what? XEJ or something) might be something. (to my mind, the F-Type is not really a direct competitor of the M3. More like an M6 / E63 coupe type car).

Porsche: Always been better, still is.

But that depends on which Porsche...

911? The old E9X beat the 911 in a few comparisons. I'm not sure the old one was that great, but by all accounts the new 991 is a great car. Frankly, it should be much better than an M4....though (at least the C&D test will say) it isn't always.

I think the Cayman is the most natural F8X comparison of the bunch - at least vs an M4. (Not nearly as practical as an M3 so will lose that fight every time....). I think that the Cayman and an M4 are actually pretty well matched, whereas I think the old Cayman was not as great (and the original boxter was awful). Again, Porsche is doing things now that will make the M4 work much harder for the win - which is good.

Same old story, just BMW that has lost some soul, still better than the reasonable competition bar Porsche.

Well, the 'loss of soul' thing is a whole other thread/topic (I would disagree for the reasons stated at least in part in that old post about nostalgia and how it colours our vision....)

But, really, the point I was trying to drive on the competition thing isn't that the other cars are better than the F8X. Rather, that they are much better than they were and are much closer to the M3/M4 - and in some cases, in the right test, with the right conditions as a 'win' might even beat the M3/M4.

To my mind, what that does is make BMW have to work harder - which abso-freaking-lutely has to be a good thing for those of us who are naturally drawn to the works of Bavaria, right?