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Originally Posted by BMWinGE

I get that your original post was genuine, however, after seeing the backlash you received, I don't understand why you continue to defend/rationalize your opinion so much.

I defend my opinion for the same reason you felt like posting your own opinion/response. Why do you have an issue with that?

Originally Posted by BMWinGE

That was a very objective post explaining why there are differences between focused sports cars and BMWs, yet you appear to stubbornly have tried to dissect or question every point that was made to defend your opinion.

Some parts of that post were objective, but some were very much a matter of opinion, which is why I posted my responses. I never disagreed with the overall statement that porsche produces a more sports-focused car than BMW. And up to this point, no one has posted specific responses to my "stubborn" counterpoints or questions, which I would gladly welcome.

Originally Posted by BMWinGE

You don't see why a Porsche or Ferrari costs more than a BMW M but you obviously think its acceptable for BMW Ms to cost more than corvettes, mustangs, camaros, WRX, 350Z, etc?

I never said it was acceptable for BMW Ms to cost more than similarly performing American muscle cars, I simply acknowledged that was the case (in hopes that the thread would not change its subject). That being said, the price gaps between BMW and American muscle cars, though still very big, are not as big as what exists between BMW and the other high-end euro brands. $26k difference between a GT Mustang and a M3 is still not as bad as the $45k+ difference between the M3 and the 911 Carrera 4s and the even greater $$$ gap between the M3 and the gt3.

Originally Posted by BMWinGE

The majority of people that can easily afford an M3, will not buy a Mustang, WRX, etc instead. The same can be said for people who can afford Ferraris, they are not likely going to pick an M3 instead. So those cars may not be worth twice as much when it comes to performance alone, but when you also factor in the quality, exclusivity, status, the price is justified for those who can afford it.

Speak for yourself. There are plenty of people, including myself, who cross-shop the M3 and Mustang, as different of cars as they are. And with the new Mustang coming out, I guarantee there will be even more. I don't know how you can definitively say most people who shop for the M3 don't also consider American muscle cars (taking a poll on this forum wouldn't prove your point either). And I never compared the M3 to a ferrari 458 (I compared the M6). You think the ferrari's and porsche's are worth 2x, 3x as much, whatever their cost is relative to BMW Ms....Ok, I disagree....as I have with numerous other people who responded earlier. And I'm not basing that opinion on performance alone, but rather the whole package.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Let's not forget some additional fundamentals. Porsches cost more than BMWs (on any loosely competitive models) primarily because Porsche can and does charge more. It's really that simple.

See, if someone had just said that from the very beginning, instead of lecturing me on how I'll never understand the intrinsic value and feel of a ferrari or porsche, I would have accepted that and this thread would be dead by now. This statement right here proves my point. Porsche charges a #*$% ton for their cars because they can...BMW does it too in relation to American luxury, though I don't see as much of a price gap. I still think BMW's M cars are still well-priced packages for the performance and quality you get in comparison to other euro performance cars.

Originally Posted by bmwm3redblack

I can't agree with op statement that 458 doesn't cost the money, but on the other hand I agree that m3-m4 is on of the best bang for the buck, In overall performance,especially with weight reduction and hp/tq numbers they offer.
But I have to say that gt3 and 458 is in another league,status, and etc. so we can't compare them with bmw.

At least you understand what I was getting at in terms of BMW offering the best performance for the value/cost. If you believe the ferrari 458 and gt3 are worth their MSRP's and can't be compared with BMW M's, then we'll have to go our separate ways on that issue.