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Originally Posted by ridin135

The 0-60 time is a pretty useless metric for a daily driver car or even a weekend cruiser unless all you want to do is drag race.

Actually the 0-60 time is a very important metric for many car enthusiasts. While it doesn't tell the whole story of how the car performs, it certainly tells you how fast it can accelerate. A lot of car enthusiasts, including myself, want to know what that time is, even if we never intend to drive the car in that capacity. That's why almost every major car magazine and website posts those times when reviewing cars.

Originally Posted by ridin135

Some cars you have listed have finesse some don't and we can go on and on but you will never understand it until you drive them. I don't mean drive them to the mall and back either actualy take them on a road and go through some nice tight switchbacks and long sweeping turns. You have to look at the whole package for a car comfort, suspension, brakes, amenities, hp, tq, weight, driving emotion, and cost.

Yep, I've agreed with this statement in numerous responses Ive posted. All cars are packaged together differently and have a unique feel. I don't know why you feel the need to say this again, other than you like "hearing" yourself "talk" on these forums.

Originally Posted by ridin135

With all that said yes BMW provides a decently priced performance vehicle but I wouldn't say they are bargain prices by any means. You get a fast car that is very practical but to me you get it at a high price, at least as of recently. If you want bang for buck I would suggest looking at the mustang, corvette, and gtr (for your 0-60) if want want the real bang for buck performance machines.

If you look at my initial post, I said that BMW M performance cars are bargains except when you compare them to American muscle cars. They are bargains when you compare them to other high-end euro performance cars.

Originally Posted by darkalley

The GT3 is absolutely twice the car of the M4. It's not just about 0-60 (which is is 3.0 seconds in the naturally aspirated 911). 4 wheel steering? Best sounding sport exhaust?

Everything you said there with the exception of the 0-60 time and the 4 wheel steering is subjective, based on your opinion. The GT3 certainly outperforms the M3 and even the upgraded M3 GTS, but to say that it is twice the car is purely a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by darkalley

Yes. I am on the fence about getting one but at $140k it's the best deal out there and an alternative to a 458 not M4. Is the m4 better than the cayman? Not a better driving car but better presence. Going from an E46 to an E92 to a 911C4S I can tell you those cars are not in the same league in terms of steering or performance? The M3/M4 are great cars but if you want a "sports car" vs a GT car the 911 is hands down more engaging.

M4 hasn't come out yet, so we can probably hold off on declaring who is better than who, which again is a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by darkalley

The M6? Have you driven it? Seriously least special car out there. The Ferrari 458????? Without question the single greatest car I have ever driven in-terms of everything.

Like I already said, I haven't driven either the M6 or the 458. I have read reviews and articles on both and watched track footage, and that's it. So I can't talk to how each car "feels" or even drives. I've learned that the 458 handles differently, and is reportedly much more capable on the track. I do know what is important to me when it comes to car buying and that I have no desire to spend $233k on a car when I can spend $113k on a car that still performs well, though maybe not as well as the 458.

Originally Posted by tdizzle

It's funny to talk about BMW and value in the same sentence. The OP lost me when he started there then proceeded to jump straight into pure numbers. If you want performance/$$ then grab a Mustang GT/Boss/GT500 and be done with it.

Yep, if you look at my original post I said American Muscle beats BMW in terms of bang-for-your-buck. I was comparing BMW M performance to the euro high performance cars (jags, aston, ferrari, porsche).

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Not even sure how the M6 even fits. Great cruiser, but that's one car I wouldn't even own. It doesn't make sense to me.

It does "fit" into this conversation, especially when we start talking about the high performance/luxury brands like jag and aston martin. The M6 comes at much lower price even though it provides similar if not outright better performance.

Originally Posted by tdizzle

But let's not get on the OP too much, he's just asking a question that got a few of us a bit too excited. Cross shopping is fun, just like talking about cars is.

Appreciate the concern, but the ferrari die-hards have already beat me up pretty good. I don't know if I'll ever recover from this verbal beat down...

Originally Posted by tdizzle

But if you really want value, than truly the M3 beings to lose that battle when compared to other similarly performing cars (let's not get into lap comparisons of the Chevy ZL1 or Boss vs any of the cars mentioned in this thread other and debate the performance to $$$ value).

Totally agree, BMW is starting to lose, in my opinion, to american muscle cars when it comes to the performance to $$$ ratio.

I realize I was a little vague in my initial post when I compared the hp and torque stats of BMW M performance cars to other high end cars. I probably should have explained myself a little better. I assumed everyone agreed with me that BMW M Performance cars are generally well-designed, well-packaged, good handling cars. I know that despite the closeness to certain cars in hp and torque, like ferrari and porsche, M Performance cars still get out-performed on the track by these guys. My only point was and still is that I don't think the better performance and "feel" of these cars, like the 911 gt3 and ferrari 458, justify the high prices. I think that the price you pay for M performance is much more reasonable in comparison (not in comparison to American Muscle).