Thread: SSOTT
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      03-18-2018, 11:19 AM   #335
bradleym
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Agreed in most respects -- I too value fiscal responsibility, human rights, rule of law, etc.

Yet both you and GrussGott repeated something that, while sometimes true, is not exclusively true...

You say 'liberals' "only want stuff without calculating the profit too often" and GG said (I think) that Democrats are the party of wealth destruction.

I try not to be partisan, and I don't think either of you are partisan (or perhaps your partisanship aligns with my own...), but those statements reflect partisan propaganda more than reality.

I think you would agree that the other statements you make reflect the conclusion that the more productive citizens there are in a society compared to non-productive the better off the society.

Therefore, 'programs' that spend societal resources to that end might actually be cost-effective, especially in the longer run. For example, there is a pretty straight line between spending on Headstart and spending on juvenile detention and prison 15-20 years down the line.

Other forms of assistance -- some effective, some not (different discussion) -- can be viewed in the same way, leading to your goal "...move up to the next bracket and for them to pay more taxes instead of being at risk of being a part of our social security system". I'm all for that -- that is 99% of the reason I frequently support such programs..

Yet 'conservatives' (that term again, sorry) will characterize such spending as woolly-headed handouts that create dependence or permit fraud -- i.e. 'welfare queens'. While again, sometimes true, not true generally, and the babies all get thrown out with the bathwater.

But this is back to the primary point -- what does 'conservative' even mean? -- which recalls the last half of your posting. At this point it seems to include numerous negative philosophical conclusions that lead to primary focus on abortion, lbgtq, bathrooms, guns guns guns (for protection), god & country, etc. Lots of fear there, which I think isn't/shouldn't be part of the calculus of budgets, etc.

Perhaps what GG is really describing is 'Liberal' with big-L (sounds oddly like a JK song my kids used to play), and signaling a return to public sphere / private sphere distinctions so we can exercise a bit more pragmatism and less partisanship -- probably putting words in his mouth.

Not sure if I'm making sense here -- got no sleep last night, having terribly allergies this morning, worried sick that my car is non-CP (lol) but at least no one can buy an F80 in SSII anymore...

Oh, and by the bye, I'm a devout capitalist who suffered massive wealth destruction (temporary thank god) about 10 years ago -- was that all the Democrats fault?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Yeah, we bloated the last one up to like 40k posts and then we had to move. Welcome to the new party!


I couldn't pick from the two labels. I like fiscal responsibility and I demand that the politicians I vote for invest my tax euros in the way where they'll turn a hefty profit.

For example I want kids in schools and I want all schools to be competitive. I don't mind that the rich get the great education too for free since I really want the lowest 1/3 of families to move up to the next bracket and for them to pay more taxes instead of being at risk of being a part of our social security system.

I want preventive healthcare for all since treating anything that's not on early stages costs a ton more. So those I see as smart investments, just like I love the way you can walk everywhere here because that makes especially the elderly move around, which again either kills them fast (ice) or keeps them healthier.

In my view, that makes me a conservative, since liberals only want stuff without calculating the profit too often. This all becomes more tricky when we talk about values you guys do much more than we here.

I haven't heard even one serious debate about restricting abortion laws here though ours are stricter than yours. Up to 12 weeks for social reasons, from there on for medical reasons and for life threatening reasons one can be had if a panel of doctors approve it. We just attempt to prevent them by shoving condom to our kids and by walking around half naked all the time to make them disgusted with the human form.

Lbgt rights are a matter of human rights, and here we really don't get why you're so weird about bathrooms. Run around naked more or pee under a tree to reduce the stress.

That makes me a total hippie in your books where as here it makes me as conservative as my great aunt is and she is pushing 80 now (she inherited the title great aunt, her mom was really my great aunt).

So who knows what being either is these days. If god and country are the only measuring criteria, I'd fail miserably everywhere. I see my country as a group of people who work for a mutual goal with an unfortunate location. I'm happy that we have immigrants and it is a joy to watch them adopting our weird grunting culture and teaching us theirs where smiling is at times allowed.

Edit. I should sleep more.
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