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Originally Posted by s4play

Value???? Are you kidding, any performance car depreciates in value FASTER than other "normal" cars. Maybe I'm mis-reading what you are stating.

Go look at a minivan, Toyota Camry/Corolla or Accord....now those cars hold their value well

Yeah some of the Japanese brands hold value over time. But compare a CPO BMW or even a post warranty BMW to similar used cars made by Ford, GM..BMW's are noted for holding their value fairly well due to the brand credibility. Even the performance lines (m3's, m5's) hold their value extremely well compared to american daily drivers, muscle and performance cars (with the exception of the special editions like the shelby gt500 and zl1).

But in any case, that wasn't the point of my thread...I was really pointing to BMW's MSRP's being much more reasonable than what porsche, ferrari, Jaguar (high end performance and luxury brands) charge for their cars.

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

I bought a Subaru Impreza GTTurbo AWD back in '99, 218PS, 5.9s 0-62mph and a great entertainer, it could 'devastate' a former E39 540i/Audi A8 on the Autobahn as well and I could keep up with some 911s... It was about 22k euros.(50k Dutch florins) and a 328i E46 was already double the price of that.

Talking about real bargains.

Yeah, I know BMW's cost/performance ratio doesn't look so good when compared to subarau, ford, nissan, ect. I was only making the comparison to the other high end euro brands. A BMW 328i does have a higher quality and refinement over Subaru...does it justify the 2x the cost of a subaru Impreza? Debatable...but there certainly is some justification for a higher price.

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

And a GT3/458 never is and was a bargain, neither is an M6. Totally different cars, a bit like comparing the Impreza GTT to a 911...at the end of the day you always want the latter. The only problem is the pricetag...

Regardless of whether or not the GT3 and 458 are totally different cars (which I agree they are) they aren't good bargains as you say, and that was my point. The M6 by comparison, though still very pricey, looks a lot more reasonable. $112k for a M6 that can haul ass on the Nurburgring or $233k for a ferrari 458 that can do it 30 sec faster. Yeah the 458 is faster, looks cooler, handles better, ect...but does that justify the extra $100k+?

Originally Posted by Powaup

I used to kind of think like OP until I drove a Panamera 4S, it really sparked something, first time I got that similar to sex feeling while driving, changed my whole perception about cars.... never judge a car until you drive it.

I am not judging the car, I'm judging its price tag.

Originally Posted by Powaup

As for the Ferrari comments: I had the opportunity to take a gallardo LP-560 for a spin and no numbers or words could describe that experience and the way it made me feel (I was shaking when I got out of the car lol) point is: super cars are in a different league than other cars and yes I would pay >$200K for one.

Again, I haven't driven this car, and probably never will...I believe everyone when they say it is a totally different driving experience. But even being different and awesome, the $233k price tag is more a byproduct of ferrari driving up the price and less of the car actually costing that much to produce (factored from manufacturing, labor fees, raw materials, transport, ect.)

Originally Posted by s4awd

Mrkhanna is right though. You really can't compare the two. The GT3 is a race car from Porsche's motorsport division. You hear, feel, smell it's cup car DNA. It's performance was literally light years ahead of my e92. I can't even imagine comparing the new 991 GT3 to the M4. M cars are sporty cars, not race cars.

I don't know why I am the first to bring this up.... M cars, especially the current M3, are also race cars. Turn on the TV, its not hard to find them. And the cars in the M Performance Division have reflected BMW's historic racing heritage, going back decades at this point. And the M3, especially the GTS version has been compared to the 911 gt3 on numerous car journals and websites. A forum member posted those videos earlier on in this thread...check them out when you get a chance.

Originally Posted by s4awd

I purchased a 997.2 3.8 RS and it's going for up to $200k on the used market and the 4.0 is fetching over $350k.

I'm starting to think a lot of this feedback is coming from the porsche fan club which is why it seems to be so biased.

Did the car cost that much at sale? If it is an exclusive special edition, that would probably factor into the sell price going up. Regardless, if your car is actually worth that much now, that would prove my point. $200k for a used special edition 997 is ridiculous. And the only reason the used price is able to jump that high is because the car was overpriced to begin with.

Originally Posted by s4awd

My GT500 for $60k makes my $100k plus M5 feel like a turtle. The M5 will prolly be worth $40k in another 2-3 years where there are people scrambling to grab the last of the 5.8l shelbys. I will always be a fan but value is not even considered when I purchase an M car.

Yeah, the gt500 is a special edition and highly sought after by second hand muscle car buyers in America, so that exclusiveness factor will probably jack up the used car price, unless the new mustang is even better . Whereas the M5, wasn't really considered anything special, though $40k in 2-3 years seems a little low. What year is it?

You definitely misinterpreted my point. I wasn't arguing that BMW's resale value was better than that of other car makers, though on average it is actually pretty decent. I was arguing that the MSRP, the value at which you buy a new car , is very good when compared to the other high-end euro car brands.