[myzmak]

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

A monumental waste of time by some, maybe the most productive thing you did that day by others. I found some of the reviews a bit hillarious. The "losses" seemed to be inconsistent, and just pure whim of the reviewing journalist.

Count me firmly in the first category!

Reading through this thread, it made me think the M4 is sort of in a different category/league now. I feel it's much more of a luxury sport coupe, than a sport luxury coupe.

All the Monty Python nerds can insert 'People's Front of Judeah' vs 'Judean People's Front' jokes here.....

E30, E36, E46 were much more 'raw', but if you look at those non-M cars of the same chassis, they were also less 'refined' than E90's and F30's. The biggest limiting factor, IMHO, is the platform. The have to work with the existing chassis platform. I wonder what would happen if BMW started from scratch, put the engine in back, had unlimited R&D budget, and had to build a better and cheaper alternative to the 911. In the real world today, BMW's taken a pretty refined platform, F3X, made it more upscale (just the feel of the leather, even), and maximized it's sporty-ness. Is it a little numb, lacking in connection and feel, not able to come out of an apex as stable, etc compared to a 911? Of course, but the 991 chassis is so different from the F3X. Also, I do think we are approaching the limits of power and handling on a rear wheel drive car. To make it (significantly) faster and handle (significantly) better, we would likely need a platform change.

Actually, this really is an excellent point. Whereas folks like Sutcliffe clamored for something just like the E46 when this car was being developed, by absolute necessity that wasn't going to happen. This car was going to be larger because the F30 is much larger than the E46 3 series. To make a true 911/Cayman competitor, BMW would have to start from scratch - in which case it wouldn't be an M3 anymore, it would be something more like the "M Coupe" of years past....

Once you have that initial size/platform, there are limits on what you can do....

IMHO, the M4's only direct competitors are the Benz, Audi, Lexus, and maybe the Caddy. And with a level playing field, the BMW has won hands down, so far (objectively). BMW is still setting the trend, and others seem to follow. Take, for example, the emphasis on lighter weight. I don't remember seeing a competitor develop weight savings on their next generation car and use it as a selling point. Every C63, RS5, RCF have gotten heavier.

The W205 C63 is supposed to be lighter, but nobody knows how much yet. The specs on the website indicate it will still be quite a bit porkier than the M3, but maybe less chubby than the W204. But, otherwise, yes, the hard core drive to lighten components does seem to have been much more the M focus this time around.

At the risk of sounding TOO much like a fanboi (but this IS an M4 forum, after all), I, for one, welcome the refinements of the M4. When considering what the M4 offers as a package, I still think it's pretty hard to beat, and there aren't really many alternatives at the moment. The competition has definitely caught up in many aspects, but I think once more real comparisons are made, and people have gotten adjusted to the turbo and torque, the M4 will still be a benchmark; it's just that the margins of victory may not be as wide as in the past.

mmmmHmmm. Preach it!