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09-09-2020, 05:35 PM | #133 | |
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09-09-2020, 05:59 PM | #134 | |
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BTW that's another great story that you and your car survived that 90mph slide in rain! Linear increase of sideway speed comes with exponential increase of fear for sure. Last edited by MyFragileHalogen; 09-09-2020 at 06:29 PM.. Reason: added some more cases of road hazard |
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09-12-2020, 07:31 PM | #135 | |
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Sorry but what are you talking about re the Miata? If you find it snappy, the suspension is not setup properly, or you are not putting in the correct inputs. “Car is scary as hell at high speed” statement further points to setup issue or need for driver to work up to the appropriate entry speed Edit: did I read it right? That you think f80 can’t spin the dry? Lol!! |
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09-12-2020, 08:37 PM | #136 |
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I could see maybe having a hard time spinning with DSC fully on, but not in track DSC-off conditions. Plenty of power to light up the rear end if you're not careful. A few weeks ago I had a good 180-degree spin coming out of the keyhole at Mid-Ohio. Pushed too hard, gave it too much throttle, and before I knew it I was facing the car behind me.
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09-12-2020, 10:11 PM | #137 | |
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As long as one is approaching the limit carefully and incrementally, paying attention to feel of the car and not shifting weight too much or not being forced to do so due to other factors (racing or road hazard), one will not spin. Going to track days that are safely run so that one can safely and incrementally increase speed would help too. F8x is amazingly well engineered to be exceptionally stable at limit, while Miata requires a lot more precision at limit due to its short wheelbase and weight distribution which in fact no one uses as a drift car. People add front lip, rear wing and aero to make their high speed turn more stable- well I can do the turn in my F8x even probably faster without worrying about "what if it slides at 90mph and I don't catch it" Well now I found out F8x is not gonna kill me even if I accidentally drift it at 100mph. No way in the Miata- I don't even want to try it. Again, personal comments. By the way, the wildfire in Oregon is really bad now. 500k under evacuation order and air quality is hazardous. Track days have become a distant thing... Last edited by MyFragileHalogen; 09-12-2020 at 10:16 PM.. |
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09-13-2020, 12:46 PM | #138 | |
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09-13-2020, 01:18 PM | #139 |
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09-13-2020, 01:21 PM | #140 | |
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Edit: Just rewind to 5:50 mark. It looks like this website doesn't allow for links that start at a given time point. |
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09-13-2020, 02:45 PM | #141 |
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First of all I'd like to avoid igniting a debate or critics on other person's fine driving. If I had to say a personal opinion as a lowly fellow track guy, it seemed that perhaps your turn-in was late and shifted a a bit too much weight trying to steer close to apex, making the slide already a quite wide angle to catch from the beginning. Being more mindful with front-rear weight balance when car does not react to steering input would potentially have helped, tapping brake or messing with throttle, usually throttle during turn-in induced oversteer.
I've done similar thing in my Miata at PIR T11 (as in one of my videos) and I couldn't catch it as I ran out of pavement. That scary muscle memory resulted in avoiding that scenario at first place. I would brake more and change line using more outer track to avoid abruptly crossing the edge of traction circle. Anyway you managed to stay in the pavement! Nice video by the way, you seem to seamlessly flow making it entertaining to watch and enjoy the first person POV of amazing track. 6MT looking great! It seems like you also use left foot for braking? Last edited by MyFragileHalogen; 09-13-2020 at 02:51 PM.. |
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09-13-2020, 02:47 PM | #142 |
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Interestingly a couple of E9X guys said the same thing to me while we were seeing red/black flags every session during my last track day.
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09-13-2020, 03:47 PM | #143 | |
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And yes, I do left foot brake |
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09-13-2020, 04:44 PM | #144 | ||
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"And yes, I do left foot brake " - That's dope! Edit: Quote:
Car not reacting to the steering input trying to stop rotation could be because chassis balance was upset due to either road condition or foot inputs and weight wasn't shifted away from front. A general tip but most important: releasing brake and moving onto throttle shouldn't come with as any tiny degree of jerkiness. Then the rate of the transitions vs. how car reacts can be experimented and adjusted. It's all about physics and how we feel it. Both weight movement in forward-rear (feet) and left-right (hands) are continuous and smooth enough, it pretty much becomes like controlling a car in a video game. But it probably happens so quick and there is no time to think except a moment of fear- but the muscle memory can be trained. First, not to abruptly lift brake when rear end starts to slide, and then not to abruptly get on throttle. Also, when weight transfer is used to rotate the car, one doesn't need much steering input at all, and by loading and unloading weight incrementally onto tires (with both steering wheel and brake/gas pedals) and feeling how they react you can approach and find limit. Once you are used to the 'feel' you get better at knowing even before understeer or oversteer happens, giving you more time to react. Typically in my F8x, releasing brake pedal smoothly was usually sufficient to catch turn-in oversteer, although throttle input were required depending on situation. I think pro drivers probably use throttle in a more advanced way to accelerate out of the slide more quickly. Last edited by MyFragileHalogen; 09-15-2020 at 09:42 AM.. Reason: some additional food of thoughts for members |
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09-14-2020, 03:38 PM | #145 |
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Haha, exactly. Nobody messes with my ineptitude, I’ll tell you that! I’ve worked too hard at it...
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09-14-2020, 06:36 PM | #146 | |
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Who did the setup on your Miata? Get the setup looked at and changed. Or I can dig up my setup sheet if you think if will help you. I agree there’s a pucker factor to knowing you have to slide the car a bit at 90-100mph (aka riverside at Buttonwillow) but that’s how all the fast guys who have shared vids and data with me are taking it. Better to get used to sliding your car in a $10k Miata than a $50k+ f8x and if your Miata is not setup to support that learning, it’s kind of a missed opportunity, imho I agree, I haven’t been to the track in while either. For better or worse, instead of discussing g80 with friends it’s now g34.... Btw which online racing platform do you use? Maybe we can organize a virtual private track day |
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09-14-2020, 08:20 PM | #147 | |
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My Miata's setup is really simple, just street tires and track/street dual setup. I definitely will have to go back to the Miata for unfinished learning and as you say I will get it corner-balanced by a reputable shop and see. But man, F8x is soooooo much easier to drive and it is addicting to play with it. I am still really primitive about using data platforms as I don't want to get stressed with small things and also I don't have to be competitive. But the Garmin thing Suds is talking about in other thread looks pretty fun. Maybe in a few year when I get bored of PNW tracks I will drive down to bay area tracks. edit: oh, you mean online racing, I don't do anything. I played Forza a bit lol. but that sounds like fun what these forum members could do during winter break. |
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10-31-2020, 07:41 AM | #148 |
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3 events in with the .2, a few updates on running costs:
Oil change (discretionary): $399 at the dealer. Pagid pads & fluid flush (independent): $1400. Did this out of habit more than anything else. OE pads were excellent. The RSL 1 probably have more initial bite, which I prefer. As of day 3, N1 Cup 2 have definitely lost a step. -2-3 mph min speed in key corners and estimate -1-2 seconds/lap. Front end has less turn in, rear even got slidey with pressures running a bit too high. Tread, on the other hand, is all good. Really excellent wear. You’d never guess they were out of their prime. So this puts you into a tire conundrum -- keep running at reduced pace and with "evolving" handling characteristics, or fit new. Track characteristics might help inform that choice, i.e., what is margin for error. Believe tires were fitted new at the time of my purchase, but they are ’18 manufacture dates. Also run in crazy hot conditions. I imagine a fresh set run in more optimum ambient conditions wouldn’t fall off quite as quick. So, echoing the RS owner on pg 1, the tire cost factor is a big one. Word on the street is that the OE Dunlop is faster and achieves more heat cycles. I’ll probably try those next -- $2k. Trofeo R are available for +$200 over the Dunlops, but those can deliver either lap records or frustration. I’ll probably steer clear. (Bridgestone, Hankook, Nitto, et al could probably corner the market with releases in 991 GT3 specs.) OE front rotors are showing a handful of small cracks. Porsche says anything >5 mm requires replacement. A few of them exceed that measurement, but they’re all pretty fine, none to the outer edge, or connecting the cross drills, etc. so confident I’ll get at least another 1-2 events out of them. Car was tracked before my ownership. OE iron rotors will last longer than my 4-5. Replacement front slotted aftermarket: $1600. Pretty fun car...
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11-01-2020, 09:21 AM | #149 | |
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11-01-2020, 11:16 PM | #150 |
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11-02-2020, 08:36 AM | #151 |
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I’ve witnessed the better/extra Dunlop wear & heat cycles on the RS. Maybe wasn’t driven quite as fast but it was wearing better than the Michelins.
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11-03-2020, 10:34 AM | #152 |
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I traded my F80 for a 718 GT4 early this summer - here are a few quick observations after 3 track days on the car.
1) still on stock fluid and pads which I have no complaints about so far. Will use these until their life is up and then upgrade. So far I have saved money compared to the cost to purchase, install and flush lines with Pagid RS29 and Motul High Temp Fluid which was immidiately neccesary on my F80 with steel brakes. 2) tire cost is much higher. Cup 2 replacement is like $1650 (this is for non N1 and about another $100 for n1).... not including install 3) factory adjustable coil overs, F and R sway bars, and F and R aero definitely makes the car a lot easier and cheaper to dial in without forcing you to go aftermarket. Sway bars and Aero I can adjust in my garage. 4) I installed camber shims. Quite inexpensive and allow more camber than stock to help save on the tires. All in all - I think this car is more inexpensive and far more capable out of the box and for your first few days on track compared to the F80. However, once you eat through your first set of tires, need an oil change, and want to go further with safety equipment (6 pt harnesses and harness bar), that's when the BMW is a cheaper car to track. |
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11-03-2020, 04:01 PM | #153 | |
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I'm considering the GT4 as my next track car and if you don't mind, may I ask:
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Q2: Is the GT4's stock brakes better than the F80's upgraded brakes (lines, pads and fluid) on track? Q3: What will you upgrade the GT4's brakes to? BBK? If yes, which one? Q4: Why didn't you go with camber plates?
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11-04-2020, 12:38 PM | #154 | |
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2) yes - night and day. no contest. My F80 with upgraded pads and fluids while sufficient on the track, would still get tired towards the end of the session on track and were not good at all on the street from a NVH point of view. With the GT4 steel brakes - I can beat on them for a 100+ track miles in one day and then drive home without so much as a peep or vibration. Very pleased. Also so far there has been next to zero fade on the track and I am pushing them hard. 3) no need to upgrade at this point - but once I wear through my pads and rotors - I will likely upgrade to AP racing rotors and upgraded pads. High temp fluid will happen when I flush the brake lines before my next track day 4) I could have either went with camber plates or camber shims. The latter was a more cost efficient and easier option as I am only running 2.1' of neg camber in the front and I could achieve that (and more) with 7mm shims alone. I will need to see if camber plates are required to install if I decide to dial in a more aggressive alignment down the road. Rear toe links and adjustable thrust arms will likely be necessary at this point. As for now, I am pleased with tire wear with current alignment. BTW, slight toe-in in the rear helped wonders under hard braking. Overall - its a magnificent upgrade over the F80 in ALL departments. My exciting to drive on the street, and really the best all around street legal choice for the track for reasonable money. I will always have a soft spot for the F80s killer looks and ability to just lay skids at any time. But the GT4 is a more precise, rewarding to drive, classy, capable track weapon 'out of the box'. |
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