09-30-2013, 06:39 PM | #155 | |
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They went into some minutiae in such amazingly diverse fields of science and engineering that it would truly make your head spin. Even more so if the basics here about shift points do... You benefit from their work each and every time you step into your car. Whether or not you can appreciate these complex, intricate and beautiful concepts is an entirely separate issue, of course... There is content here on m3post.com well beyond this. Many appreciate and participate in such content. To each their own, I guess.
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09-30-2013, 07:10 PM | #156 |
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No one is forcing you to read this thread. There is context for these discussions that does not require your attention. If you don't like our discussion you don't have to stay. Post in a less technical thread.
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09-30-2013, 07:20 PM | #157 |
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Jon and swamp is there anyway to prove who's right or wrong. I'm glad m3 post have member like you guys to contribute, it too bad I don't have the knowledge to participate in this great discussion about the next generation m cars.
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09-30-2013, 07:55 PM | #158 |
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No need for that. This is part of an elaborate courting ritual. Just stay back and let it unfold.
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09-30-2013, 08:09 PM | #159 |
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09-30-2013, 08:10 PM | #160 | |
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Truth be told, neither of them are wrong per se (swamp may disagree with me :P). The argument is over the nitty gritty details and who's method is "better" (more accurate, realistic, etc.) at determining what the optimal shift points are. There is nothing wrong with some heated debate. |
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09-30-2013, 08:14 PM | #161 | |
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To calculate optimum shift points, you can either plot resultant tractive force vs road speed or available power vs road speed for each gear. When the lines cross between gears, it is the optimal shift point (the RPM needs to be back calculated from the road speed and gear ratio). If the lines don't cross, you shift at redline. As swamp points out, estimating parasitic losses in the process will improve the precision of the result for both methods. |
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09-30-2013, 08:26 PM | #162 | |
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09-30-2013, 09:24 PM | #163 |
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I think this will be a key point in figuring the actual performance of the F8X. On the F1X M5/M6, the DCT ratios were clearly not established for maximum performance. However, if on the F8X, the DCT allows keeping the revs always in the power plateau (which most likely means short shifting every gear as Swamp mentions), it will be a hell a of a performer .
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09-30-2013, 09:31 PM | #164 | |
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09-30-2013, 09:50 PM | #165 |
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09-30-2013, 09:57 PM | #166 |
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09-30-2013, 10:02 PM | #167 |
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09-30-2013, 10:22 PM | #168 |
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09-30-2013, 11:12 PM | #169 |
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I'd like to be insulted by that but I am also too busy laughing at your clever comment!
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09-30-2013, 11:17 PM | #170 |
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I am very curious if it turns out that swamp2 overestimated rpm dependent parasitic losses for the f8x (to force his point that turbo engines are inferior and always need to be short shifted) or his (from my perspective) rather pessimistic approximation is (annoyingly) absolutely correct (again).
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09-30-2013, 11:27 PM | #171 |
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Not quite. If you have reliable dyno information (which anyone in the know will admit is pretty much a non-sequitur) losses are not needed. For my process, losses absolutely are required for the calculation. My calculation is almost entirely a-priori (no test data required).
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09-30-2013, 11:32 PM | #172 | |
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09-30-2013, 11:33 PM | #173 | |
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09-30-2013, 11:35 PM | #174 |
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Another reason why I like the more purely a-priori type of calculation.
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09-30-2013, 11:36 PM | #175 |
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09-30-2013, 11:40 PM | #176 |
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