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11-21-2013, 10:08 PM | #177 | |
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Cheers.
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11-22-2013, 03:31 AM | #178 | |
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So a more correct and efficient use of the English language than calling it "Driving outside of the urban centre, but not quite just highway driving either" Perhaps you thought Extra Urban meant "Even more Urban" or that Extra Terrestrial means "Even more Earthly"? |
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11-22-2013, 03:47 AM | #179 | |
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And with European gas prices, the fuel consumption actually makes a big difference. Especially if the gap between the average car and the M car gets too large. If the M uses more than twice the gas as the daily driver, it becomes a concern for many... But, agree. Fuel consumption isn't top priority for most M3/M4 buyers. Emmisions chart: Tax chart for the UK: |
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11-22-2013, 08:24 AM | #180 | |
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Cheers.
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11-22-2013, 10:25 AM | #181 | |
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Thank you
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11-22-2013, 10:53 AM | #182 |
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CFRP vs. "carbon fiber"
No, if you read my post #16 and the attached pages you will see that the roof of the E92 is also CFRP.
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11-22-2013, 07:41 PM | #183 |
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Both the same material. But here's the difference ...
Think of what they did for the Corvette C7 roof. The base roof is CFRP, but painted. The top of the line roof is also CFRP, but is not painted. And it costs more. It costs more because people are going to see the fibers in the non-painted (or clear) CF roof so the weave and everything has to be perfect. If they paint it they can get by with a not so perfect weave. There should be no difference in function however. And so, I believe this is the situation with the M4 trunk lid. If they leave it clear coated like the roof then it will need to be perfect, like the roof. And hence, cost more. So, why don't they paint the roof too? Probably because it may be a little easier to produce perfectly and probably because they might want to showcase it. I'm sure if you want a CF trunk lid then some third party will make one for you. At a premium price, of course. Cheers.
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11-23-2013, 02:25 AM | #184 | |
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11-24-2013, 12:45 AM | #185 | |
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11-25-2013, 09:51 AM | #186 | |
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11-25-2013, 01:21 PM | #187 |
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11-25-2013, 03:46 PM | #188 |
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11-25-2013, 03:50 PM | #189 |
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+1 Like someone just died. This is still an enthusiasts car. No one is ending an era. God they said the same thing with the V8 now the turbocharged engine. Why do we always focus on the glass half empty?
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11-25-2013, 04:01 PM | #190 |
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Heard that the cup holders will be produced on the same facility as the regular 3/4-series?
Can anyone confirm if this is true. That will be a deal breaker for me There might be some "romance" to a special plant. But can anyone tell what they did/does at the special plant that is different from the regular plant? Last edited by Boss330; 11-25-2013 at 04:09 PM.. |
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11-25-2013, 04:45 PM | #191 | |
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That being said, I am not implying that the S55 will be less of an engine because of it. |
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11-25-2013, 04:57 PM | #192 | |
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11-25-2013, 08:38 PM | #193 | ||
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11-26-2013, 02:53 AM | #194 | ||
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To me, that indicates that the S65 and other M engines are mass produced on a assembly line, not hand built. Then the Munich assembly line has to be better than the one at the Steyr plant to make a difference. The Munich engine facility makes 300.000 engines per year and the Steyr plant makes just over 1.000.000 engines per year, but with "only" 300.000 of those engines being petrol engines, the rest being diesels. Overvierw over BMW plants: http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bm...rte/index.html BMW Munich plant: http://www.bmw-plant-munich.com/lowb.../en/index.html Quote:
BMW Steyr plant: http://www.bmw-plant-steyr.com/ So far I haven't found any indications of such a low volume manufacturing process at Munich to compare with a true dedicated plant such as I witnessed at Cosworth's facility and assembly of Aston Martin engines etc. In fact it seems more like the special plant is there to assemble the "odd" engines that doesn't fit in the mainstream lines than it exists for higher tolerances etc. This thread also shows that the S65 "sticks out like a sore thumb" compared to other BMW engines when it comes to clearances... http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838 Last edited by Boss330; 11-26-2013 at 03:32 AM.. |
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11-26-2013, 03:50 AM | #195 | |
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That´s the real reason, why it was an realy bad move in terms of M spirit ... none could says, that the S55 was an bad engine because it is build on the regular Steyr plant, but one great and important thing, that make the M cars so special, has gone ... the uniqueness of their engines. Until now the M cars especially the M3 were build in the M spirit as "Rennsporttechnik für die Straße" and have only 20% of common part with the AG models they are based on. Also this has dropped to 50% which meens that the new M cars are much less unique and therefor much cheaper to produce ... without an drop in the consumer price. SO you now are simple getting less for the same price compared with the old M cars. The performance doesn´t counts, because all M cars were better than their precessors ... every new M3 was the "best M3 ever", but with with the older M cars we get this performance increase together with the uniqueness of an car build in the spirit of the M-GmbH - race cars (from the technical point of view) in the outfit of regular coupes or sedans. Greets BMW M3 CRT |
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11-26-2013, 06:59 AM | #196 | |
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But I'm not sure that I agree on your view on similarity between the M and regular models. The way I see it, the F8x will be the M model that probably is the most different from the production models ever. Why? The engine, transmission, suspension, driveline are just as different from the base models as allways (even previous models have had a Block based on a Production Version). In fact, the CFRP driveshaft is a New Development from previous M's. The bodyshell has never been so different from the base models, with more extensive use of CFRP. The base models of a E36 or E46 (especially the E36) can easily be modified to a M3. The E36 only needs the driveline and suspension plus some easily attached reinforcement plates. The E46 needs new fenders front and rear in addition to what it takes to convert a E36, but very simple and easy modifications. The F3x will probably not be able to get legally converted to a M3/M4 as it's based on a separate bodyshell with a different part # In which areas does the F8x differ less from the base models than a E30, E36, E46 and E9x? Last edited by Boss330; 11-26-2013 at 07:07 AM.. |
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11-26-2013, 07:44 AM | #197 | |
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And in Jasons official review of the new M3/M4 in this forum, I read about 50% common parts ... much less than the previously quoted 20%, and this includes all CRFP-Part that are new in the F8x! And also Mr.Biermann says in his SPORTAUTO interview, that they have made many parts together with the AG-Models to reduce productions costs. He says this like it was a good move, but until now it was an important marketing issue that an M3 ist totally different from his 3er counterpart (it only looks like an 3er) and that this is the reason for its higher price. Seems like the new M3/M4 is getting much cheaper ... but not for the customer ... only for BMW!? |
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11-26-2013, 08:14 AM | #198 | |
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Can't find any references to it in brochures or press releases. |
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