19 or 20s what do you all think?

[tonydt1g3r]

Go with 20's lowered

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by gthal

Here is some unsolicited advice.... I have Avant Garde cast winter wheels and the only downside is they are heavy and you can feel it. The car rides rougher and you can "feel" the car dealing with extra weight. Mine are M510 but all cast wheels are similarly heavy. It isn't a big deal for a winter wheel but I would not sacrifice the driving experience in summer with a heavy wheel.

I know cast wheels are cheap and that has an appeal but I would try really, really hard to find a wheel that is 24lbs or less. There are flow formed wheels like this that are pretty competitive in price... Vorsteiner has several and the pricing is very good. Here is a link to a thread on the VFF-103 that weigh in at 22.4lbs and the price would surprise you (i.e. low)... LINK. In any event, just an example of a lighter weight, inexpensive wheel.

Just my advice based on having a heavy wheel on the car for winter... it is noticeable in feel in a bad way. The M4 OEM wheels are very light and, IMO, the suspension was tuned for those wheels and does not deal well with heavy wheels. People always talk about how weight in the wheels hurts performance and they aren't kidding... 1 or 2 pounds likely doesn't matter but replacing a 21 or 22lb wheel with a 28+lb wheel is very noticeable in feel, responsiveness, ride quality, etc. Just my view... your priorities may be different and it might not matter

This is very helpful. I definitely don't want to sacrifice ride quality, but I absolutely love the look of the black Zs05 zitos, AG M580 and Verde Axis V99.. I need to research all the weights as I don't want to ruin the performance. Thanks for your help.

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Do you have CCBs? What suspension are you running or planning to the run? Will you use this set to track at all? A well thought out response require those details.

I don't have CCBs and I am planning to stay stock or go with Eibachs.

[dme330i]

M510's with custom offsets 20x8.5 et15 and 20x10 et35. No drop as you can tell but definitely not 4x4ish. Will consider H&R and Eibach but will see how things go for a bit. 255/30 up front and 285/30 rears. Rides, imo, as good as the stock 19's. A bit heavier, but this car (vert) is equally about show

Had VFF103's on order but the 20's won't be available until late June.

The extra 6-7 pounds per wheel (25 pounds in total) in rotational weight equals approximately 80 pounds (in total) in static weight if I recall from some rotational mass calculator. Will have to check it again - it's been a while.

While pics can exaggerate things a bit, in person, I think this car swallows-up 20's from a visual perspective.

[THEROK]

Pretty simple, really.

Wheels with dish or multi-piece wheels go 20s for the best look.

Single piece wheels with no lip whether concave or flat go 19s.

Both look better lowered.

Just my $.50.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Padfan9

Which wheels are heavy cast wheels? I agree about the ride but how do the 19s look more aggressive then 20s? Looking at all the pics I can't agree. I'm going to lower my car on eibachs first and see how it looks but I know I want either Avant Garde M580 or the zitos. What do you think about those two wheels?

Sorry, didn't get a notification that you replied.

What I meant with more aggressive was that it looks more like a race car with 19's where 20's make it look more like a show car. Both can look great, it is just two different approaches.

As people above here have said already all the wheels you mention are quite heavy and will sacrifice both handling and comfort. The car will feel 'heavy' and you definitely feel the added weight.

You need to get flow formed wheels or forged wheels to get decent weights.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

S The car will feel 'heavy' and you definitely feel the added weight.

I agree with this statement. I can absolutely feel the change in the car with my 19" M510 wheels (winter) on the car and I'm not talking about grip or responsiveness from the tires. You can feel the suspension working hard to manage the weight on each wheel hub.

In contrast, the OEM wheels are very light and you don't "feel" them at all. For me personally, I wouldn't put wheels on the car for summer driving that weighed more than 24lbs. Having said that, many people don't care about this as much as others and it may not be important to them. It is very subjective. I will suggest that anyone who says they can't feel the difference of adding 8+ lbs to each wheel either have numb butts or treat the car like a show car

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by gthal

I agree with this statement. I can absolutely feel the change in the car with my 19" M510 wheels (winter) on the car and I'm not talking about grip or responsiveness from the tires. You can feel the suspension working hard to manage the weight on each wheel hub.

In contrast, the OEM wheels are very light and you don't "feel" them at all. For me personally, I wouldn't put wheels on the car for summer driving that weighed more than 24lbs. Having said that, many people don't care about this as much as others and it may not be important to them. It is very subjective. I will suggest that anyone who says they can't feel the difference of adding 8+ lbs to each wheel either have numb butts or treat the car like a show car

Correct. Thus the correct answer is 18s.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by gthal

I agree with this statement. I can absolutely feel the change in the car with my 19" M510 wheels (winter) on the car and I'm not talking about grip or responsiveness from the tires. You can feel the suspension working hard to manage the weight on each wheel hub.

In contrast, the OEM wheels are very light and you don't "feel" them at all. For me personally, I wouldn't put wheels on the car for summer driving that weighed more than 24lbs. Having said that, many people don't care about this as much as others and it may not be important to them. It is very subjective. I will suggest that anyone who says they can't feel the difference of adding 8+ lbs to each wheel either have numb butts or treat the car like a show car

If you don't care or feel the difference you shouldn't be in a M car!

Where I felt it the most were during slow driving over bumpy surfaces or speed bumps and stuff like that. Just like you said you could feel the whole car working a lot harder to 'move' the suspension and the comfort goes down. And the same for higher speeds, if you take a long sweeping bend and the suspension is upset by a bump or something like that it influences the car a lot more with the heavier wheels and you lose the line you had before the bump completely where with the lighter wheels it just swallows the bump and keeps the line through the bend.

[Padfan9]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

If you don't care or feel the difference you shouldn't be in a M car!

Where I felt it the most were during slow driving over bumpy surfaces or speed bumps and stuff like that. Just like you said you could feel the whole car working a lot harder to 'move' the suspension and the comfort goes down. And the same for higher speeds, if you take a long sweeping bend and the suspension is upset by a bump or something like that it influences the car a lot more with the heavier wheels and you lose the line you had before the bump completely where with the lighter wheels it just swallows the bump and keeps the line through the bend.

How about acceleration? Handling around corners?

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Padfan9

How about acceleration? Handling around corners?

Both will be worse due to the added rotational weight. It will kind of be like acceleration with a passenger in the car all the time even though you are by yourself.

I changed from a forged set of split 20" wheels to a forged set of 19" wheels on my old car because the handling of the car was so much worse due to the added weight of the rims. And I am no race car driver on the road, I drive to and from work and other errands like the gym or shopping etc, so basic A-B driving.

But as gthal said above - some people don't care or won't notice. There are lot's of M's on this forum with cast wheels that are happy.

[THEROK]

Wheels aren't simply about weight alone. It's weight and strength.

The amount of deflection under braking and turns on a lighter weight wheel compared to a heavier weight wheel with greater strength will adversely affect any gains from pounds saved. And not all "forged" wheels are created equal so just because a wheel is labeled as "forged" doesn't necessitate that it's better than the cast wheel.

Net of it is, you want to stick with reputable vendors like BBS, Volk, OZ, Forgeline, HRE and the like to ensure quality, reliability and durability. There's a ton of junk brands out there. Buyer beware.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by THEROK

Wheels aren't simply about weight alone. It's weight and strength.

The amount of deflection under braking and turns on a lighter weight wheel compared to a heavier weight wheel with greater strength will adversely affect any gains from pounds saved. And not all "forged" wheels are created equal so just because a wheel is labeled as "forged" doesn't necessitate that it's better than the cast wheel.

Net of it is, you want to stick with reputable vendors like BBS, Volk, OZ, Forgeline, HRE and the like to ensure quality, reliability and durability. There's a ton of junk brands out there. Buyer beware.

Not debating that there are junk wheels out there but any wheel that is deforming under load any amount that impacts performance would be an issue IMO. Light weight wheels can be stronger (and often are if they are well made) than heavier wheels.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Padfan9

How about acceleration? Handling around corners?

IMO, you won't notice a difference in acceleration without a way to measure it... that is, not enough difference to feel with the butt-o-meter. However, I notice the handling difference over rough surfaces and on any mid-corner bumps.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

Correct. Thus the correct answer is 18s.

Lots of 19's that weigh as little as 18's... or within a pound or two at most The best of both worlds is a light weight, forged 19" wheel... light and aesthetically pleasing