M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Neither will be as fun as the M3. Just trade the beater for a nice RAV4 to use. I find that mixing SUV's and high performance cars together into one package just lead to a bunch of compromises.

I agree. I've said this before but once the novelty of the instant torque wears off (just like your tires will), it's just not as fun or engaging to drive as an M3, especially a CS. I used to drive the Model 3 all the time but 10k miles later I reach for my E46 or F80 10/10 times. Now I only drive it when I'm feeling super lazy and just want to use AP which is pretty rare since we are still laying low in this pandemic.

I would not get rid of something special like a CS for a run of the mill EV. In 10 years time every EV will be doing 0-60 in or around 3 seconds whether is a base or sport model. But what car can you fire up then that will have the rumble of the exhaust and engaging feel of the drive? EVs are very sterile and are great at what they do. It's just the experience is so apples to oranges and I'm not quite ready to let ICE go.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

I agree. I've said this before but once the novelty of the instant torque wears off (just like your tires will), it's just not as fun or engaging to drive as an M3, especially a CS. I used to drive the Model 3 all the time but 10k miles later I reach for my E46 or F80 10/10 times. Now I only drive it when I'm feeling super lazy and just want to use AP which is pretty rare since we are still laying low in this pandemic.

I would not get rid of something special like a CS for a run of the mill EV. In 10 years time every EV will be doing 0-60 in or around 3 seconds whether is a base or sport model. But what car can you fire up then that will have the rumble of the exhaust and engaging feel of the drive? EVs are very sterile and are great at what they do. It's just the experience is so apples to oranges and I'm not quite ready to let ICE go.

So, just to remind the new readers, you have the version of the model 3 with “performance” dual motors but all season 18s and non sport suspension from the base car

Just imagine the comments we would make on these forums if someone bought an f80 and swapped in all season 18s and non sport suspension from an f30 328.

It’s been 2 years of ownership for me and model 3P remains the most used car in my household. We have 2 non GT porsche right now (cayenne S left here by a friend who is traveling, plus my 6TT), a spec Miata with license plates, and an f31 330 and my wife and I are constantly asking each other who is using the model 3P that day

Edit: I just re read my post and damn, I am such a tesla fanboy right now, sorry. I am legit loving the car a lot and am even thinking of getting wider wheels with cup 2 tires and full coilovers for even more shenanigans around the canyons with the EV

Edit2: as thanks for my fanboy ness, my car almost bricked itself from the 12v battery needing to be replaced.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So, just to remind the new readers, you have the version of the model 3 with “performance” dual motors but all season 18s and non sport suspension from the base car

Just imagine the comments we would make on these forums if someone bought an f80 and swapped in all season 18s and non sport suspension from an f30 328.

It’s been 2 years of ownership for me and model 3P remains the most used car in my household. We have 2 non GT porsche right now (cayenne S left here by a friend who is traveling, plus my 6TT), a spec Miata with license plates, and an f31 330 and my wife and I are constantly asking each other who is using the model 3P that day

Edit: I just re read my post and damn, I am such a tesla fanboy right now, sorry. I am legit loving the car a lot and am even thinking of getting wider wheels with cup 2 tires and full coilovers for even more shenanigans around the canyons with the EV

Edit2: as thanks for my fanboy ness, my car almost bricked itself from the 12v battery needing to be replaced.

Hahah, well, the Model 3 Stealth is more like the Base M3 "Civic" with the 18s, but with supercar acceleration. It just happens to be a more comfy car to putt putt around in (like the base M3). It has the same track mode and motors as a Performance. The only thing I kinda wanted from the Performance were the bigger red brakes but no biggie, I prefer the more compliant ride with the 18s (which don't fit over the performance brakes anyways). I prefer the inconspicuous looks of the stealth. I already have a LSB and Imola M3 that gets more attention than I like. So having a normal looking Model 3 is great, especially in SoCal which seems like they are on every street corner these days.

I'm sure you know, with your big 20's, a Stealth would be a bit faster than a P3D, as well as more efficient with range. Also, with the AWD it certainly makes up for having a softer suspension when whipping it around turns. But I get why with your choices you'd reach for the P3D. I just happen to enjoy either the scream of the S54 or the spool and boosting of the F80 more since it has a visceral feel to driving it that you can't duplicate in a silent EV.

Don't get me wrong, I like our Tesla (its great for long trips, so quiet and comfy), but I'll always be a BMW fan. The Tesla is just the latest toy to hold me over until BMW makes a real EV. I'm not a fan of the poor build quality and frequent bugs with each software update with Tesla right now. At first I thought it was the coolest thing to keep getting updates. Then I realized each update was 2 steps forward with some new features, but 1 step back with something else breaking. It gets old after awhile and I look forward to bug fixes rather than new features. Oh well, this is the price of early adoption. As soon as BMW releases the i4 or i5 that gets the same range and performance and hopefully without the ugly giant grilles, I'm sure the Tesla will be up for sale.

edit: I should clarify for those not aware, a Stealth Model 3 is a Model 3 Performance minus the slightly lowered suspension, CF spoiler, uprated brakes with red calipers, and 20 wheels with PS4s. Its not a LR AWD with the speed boost. It has the same software and powertrain as a P3D. The Stealth was an off the menu special order Performance for people who wanted the performance without the looks of P3D. Its probably the best performance car bargain on the planet as it does 0-60 in about 3 secs flat. I believe you can still order it but it costs the same as P3D now which probably doesn't make sense. The original stealth was like 7K cheaper than a P3D (hence best performance bargain comment).

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Hahah, well, the Model 3 Stealth is more like the Base M3 "Civic" with the 18s, but with supercar acceleration. It just happens to be a more comfy car to putt putt around in (like the base M3). It has the same track mode and motors as a Performance.


I'm sure you know, with your big 20's, a Stealth would be a bit faster than a P3D, as well as more efficient with range. Also, with the AWD it certainly makes up for having a softer suspension when whipping it around turns..

Softer springs, less aggressive dampers and all season efficiency tires all add up to a big reduction in “feel”.

you were saying you go for your M3 instead of EV because your tesla doesn’t have “feel” and it’s a 1 trick pony that can just accelerate

Well, IMHO it’s because of the $2k costs savings you chose instead of having more of said “feel” via sport suspension and sport tires

that being said, I think you’re a much bigger M3 fan than I am, since you have 2 M3 and I sold my f80 to get a porsche (which I ironically don’t really use)

Hope you continue to enjoy your cars in good health btw!

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

So, just to remind the new readers, you have the version of the model 3 with “performance” dual motors but all season 18s and non sport suspension from the base car

Just imagine the comments we would make on these forums if someone bought an f80 and swapped in all season 18s and non sport suspension from an f30 328.

It’s been 2 years of ownership for me and model 3P remains the most used car in my household. We have 2 non GT porsche right now (cayenne S left here by a friend who is traveling, plus my 6TT), a spec Miata with license plates, and an f31 330 and my wife and I are constantly asking each other who is using the model 3P that day

Edit: I just re read my post and damn, I am such a tesla fanboy right now, sorry. I am legit loving the car a lot and am even thinking of getting wider wheels with cup 2 tires and full coilovers for even more shenanigans around the canyons with the EV

Edit2: as thanks for my fanboy ness, my car almost bricked itself from the 12v battery needing to be replaced.

I've seen some threads about the 12V battery problems but haven’t dived too deep yet. How common is it and why are they dying so quickly for some? Is it just a shitty battery?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by InTheseUncertainTimes

I've seen some threads about the 12V battery problems but haven’t dived too deep yet. How common is it and why are they dying so quickly for some? Is it just a shitty battery?

No idea.

I always was told (for ice cars) lifespan of 12v battery is 2-5 years and I guess for whatever reason mine is 2 year this time around for my model 3

My GUESS is that with all the software updates and stuff while the car is of the 12v just gets deep cycled a lot and wears out quickly

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

No idea.

I always was told (for ice cars) lifespan of 12v battery is 2-5 years and I guess for whatever reason mine is 2 year this time around for my model 3

My GUESS is that with all the software updates and stuff while the car is of the 12v just gets deep cycled a lot and wears out quickly

I guess there must be reasons but it seems they could design an EV that doesn’t rely on ancient 12V battery

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by InTheseUncertainTimes

I guess there must be reasons but it seems they could design an EV that doesn’t rely on ancient 12V battery

Check out this post on another forum from 2 years ago where this is discussed

Not sure if it’s accurate info still but it seems tesla really deep cycles the 12v (ie they could optimize their software to keep the 12v at a higher SoC to keep it alive longer) and the 12v battery exists for safety reasons (so they high voltage battery isn’t always connected) and to enable using off the shelf parts that run off 12v dc

Mobile service coming soon to fix it under warranty.

I wonder if the last few weeks of 100F+ ambient temps contributed, or if there’s some type of issue with my how my specific car has been charging the 12v

[dmk08]

Ive been going back and forth on getting an F80 M3 vs an M340i for a new daily. I originally planned on getting a new Bronco but life has told me no in a good way. We have a baby on the way so a top off vehicle just isn't my target anymore.

After reading the thread this morning over a cup of coffee I now have an TM3 test drive scheduled for tomorrow. I didn't have an option to select the trim so I hope it is a P.

My biggest concern going in is how well I will fit at 6’7” even though I did see a video of a 7’2” guy driving one.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Ive been going back and forth on getting an F80 M3 vs an M340i for a new daily. I originally planned on getting a new Bronco but life has told me no in a good way. We have a baby on the way so a top off vehicle just isn't my target anymore.

After reading the thread this morning over a cup of coffee I now have an TM3 test drive scheduled for tomorrow. I didn't have an option to select the trim so I hope it is a P.

My biggest concern going in is how well I will fit at 6’7” even though I did see a video of a 7’2” guy driving one.

When I test drive they were super chill. Let me test drive multiple cars even though I didn’t have an appointment. They had all the trims available. I will bet the test drive will change some of your perceptions on this car.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Ive been going back and forth on getting an F80 M3 vs an M340i for a new daily. I originally planned on getting a new Bronco but life has told me no in a good way. We have a baby on the way so a top off vehicle just isn't my target anymore.

After reading the thread this morning over a cup of coffee I now have an TM3 test drive scheduled for tomorrow. I didn't have an option to select the trim so I hope it is a P.

My biggest concern going in is how well I will fit at 6’7” even though I did see a video of a 7’2” guy driving one.

Holy cow, you should be test driving a Model S haha. I can't imagine there is any car that would have rear legroom after you adjust your seat to comfort.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Holy cow, you should be test driving a Model S haha. I can't imagine there is any car that would have rear legroom after you adjust your seat to comfort.

There is not many.

I would love to drive an X or S but the cost of entry is beyond my spending limit and I'm not trying to buy a used one.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by dmk08

There is not many.

I would love to drive an X or S but the cost of entry is beyond my spending limit and I'm not trying to buy a used one.

Honestly, they are overpriced for the quality of product you are getting. The reason the Model 3 is doing so well is it hits the right price range for most people who are willing to early adopt but get a pretty good EV, if you look past some of the build quality issues and design flaws. But for 70-100k, its much harder to look past those issues. For around 35-50k, you can and b/c there is nothing it is competing against in the EV space.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Honestly, they are overpriced for the quality of product you are getting. The reason the Model 3 is doing so well is it hits the right price range for most people who are willing to early adopt but get a pretty good EV, if you look past some of the build quality issues and design flaws. But for 70-100k, its much harder to look past those issues. For around 35-50k, you can and b/c there is nothing it is competing against in the EV space.

Agreed. I never considered a Model 3 at launch but now that the M3P is only $56k with all the options I want its cheaper than the M340i I specced out. Then you factor in fuel savings and speed..

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by dmk08

There is not many.

I would love to drive an X or S but the cost of entry is beyond my spending limit and I'm not trying to buy a used one.

The Model 3 has more headroom than the Model S despite the Model 3’s smaller overall footprint. Try sitting in both and you’ll see...

[ZCD1]

By contrast to those who contend that the Tesla Model 3 lacks “feel” or “excitement”, I just joined a couple of my BMW motorcycle riding mates on a trip across Michigan’s UP and had an absolute riot!

The car is one of the few that can easily keep pace with the bikes even on the gnarliest pavement...

[Kief]

So yesterday I took my wife’s X5 M50i and needed to get her gas afterwards (shocking, I know), and didn’t realize Tesla just added a supercharger next to this gas station near my home. I saw a blue Model Y charging up, and it looked really good with the dark wheels and black trim. It got me thinking....

I also saw for the first time on the road a blue Supra and it sounded and looked awesome! I’m just obsessed with various cars and apparently love burning money on them!! I need a hobby

[dmk08]

3 was super fun but I was not very comfortable at 6’7” so I wont be getting one. Plenty of headroom but my knees were “frog style”. Would be fine for shorter trips but not anything with distance.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by dmk08

3 was super fun but I was not very comfortable at 6’7” so I wont be getting one. Plenty of headroom but my knees were “frog style”. Would be fine for shorter trips but not anything with distance.

Hahha, you are an M5 sized person. Maybe an X7 if your kids are anywhere close to your size.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Hahha, you are an M5 sized person. Maybe an X7 if your kids are anywhere close to your size.

M5 sized person but 540i sized wallet.

F10 M5s are in my budget but Im damn scared of the maintenance costs.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dmk08

M5 sized person but 540i sized wallet.

F10 M5s are in my budget but Im damn scared of the maintenance costs.

Apparently there will be a 1000hp m5 ev coming out in the future. If it’s like any other ev, maintenance costs will be close to zero

Also there are a ton of high power pickup ev coming out in the future which should have a lot more space

I’ve posted this before, but if anyone is on the fence about ev right now, don’t force it, because the product tech is moving quickly and the industry is heading in that direction anyway.

For now the focus for gas loyalists should be getting some all out sports cars in the garage to have as long term keepers, and then get the next gen of EV when whatever objection you have about the current gen is resolved

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Apparently there will be a 1000hp m5 ev coming out in the future. If it’s like any other ev, maintenance costs will be close to zero

Also there are a ton of high power pickup ev coming out in the future which should have a lot more space

I’ve posted this before, but if anyone is on the fence about ev right now, don’t force it, because the product tech is moving quickly and the industry is heading in that direction anyway.

For now the focus for gas loyalists should be getting some all out sports cars in the garage to have as long term keepers, and then get the next gen of EV when whatever objection you have about the current gen is resolved

Ill probably just do exactly what Ive been saying I wouldnt for 2 years and get a G80...