Is 6 previous owners too much?

[noemon]

Originally Posted by Reckless_2k

The mileage checks out on the MOT history.

A lot of people use these as weekend cars and since the covid pandemic many are working from home.

I've only been doing 3500 miles a year since 2020.

The car I really wanted was from 2018 had just 18,000 miles on it.

This car has been on sale for about a month now. I reckon I could get a couple of grand off but still apprehensive due to how hard it will be to sell in the future.

Doesn't matter mate if it checks out on the MOT, one can tamper with it before the MOT test and take it in no problem, then all subsequent mot's follow with reduced mileage.

1 or 2 owner car is believable, 6 owner car with 33k is quite impossible. I put 25k a year on the car. Did it for 2 years and now putting 6k instead. Plenty of others like me and at least 1 of 6 is bound to be.

You got to check behind the dash if there is a tampering device.

Pretty certain you'll find one. Not sure if that covers all your bases still. Talking to an expert on this is helpful purely for educational purposes also.

[Reckless_2k]

Originally Posted by noemon

Doesn't matter mate if it checks out on the MOT, one can tamper with it before the MOT test and take it in no problem, then all subsequent mot's follow with reduced mileage.

1 owner car is believable, 6 owner car with 33k is quite impossible. I put 25k a year on the car. Did it for 2 years and now putting 6k instead. Plenty of others like me and at least 1 of 6 is bound to be.

You got to check behind the dash if there is a tampering device.

Pretty certain you'll find one.

Good points. I'm not going to bother checking this one out in person.

I will hold out for a very low mileage non comp. Hopefully the wait won't be too long.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by swagon

Typical UK with cars that have had 5+ owners.

Really? Is it high-end luxury or just all cars, for example from a Honda Civic to a McLaren 720S in general? Is the used market demand higher than new car demand or about the same?

[noemon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Really? Is it high-end luxury or just all cars, for example from a Honda Civic to a McLaren 720S in general? Is the used market demand higher than new car demand or about the same?

It is very usual, because of leases and 1 car changing 2-3 registrations but only 1 user, but also because lots of small traders, registering cars on their personal names because they haven't set up properly with insurance [usually] yet or ever.

The car market in the UK is very competitive as both supply & demand are the highest in the world I believe per capita, and the right-hand drive lock keeps loads of stock in the market so prices drop fast and owner registrations change very often.

Sadly it doesn't have the roads or the road standards for that matter as first fix is far less quality than France, Germany,the rest of Europe & the US but it does have the quality tracks and lots of other tracks and non-British motorways around to play with.

The 70mph speed limit has become a trick to divest from motorway quality standards and basically build a crappy motorway full of bumps from day 1.

When the national speed limit was proposed to be raised to 80mph by Philip Hammond a Tory Chancellor, he came out and said that "due to engineering conditions we can not have a national speed limit of 80mph like in the rest of Europe, so impossible at this stage..." and that was 12 years ago, now the roads have deteriorated even worse as they made a conscious decision to go the other way and splash 60mph(M11, M25) and 40mph(M25, M20 UK-Dover-Calais!) signs across several major motorway arteries for years again due to engineering conditions.

After Boris and Brexit we 're back at the Stone Age in terms of public roads.

Better to drive the car track-only and Europe-only. Hence the garage queens.

[M3SQRD]

noemon

Thanks for the detailed response! I did not know things were that bad. Interesting that a lease results in two owners being listed as having owned a lease. I also didn’t know the UK had the highest demand for cars per capita. I’m surprised this doesn’t drive up used car purchases or slow down depreciation on new cars.

So perhaps six cars in 32k miles is typical. It’s definitely not in the US.

You’re right about having some awesome road courses! I'd love to be able to drive on Silverstone!! US roads aren’t great and downright terrible in some cities. Most of our interstates and highways are decently maintained and a majority of roads are set at 70-75 mph but a decent number are still 55 mph.

How far do you have to drive to get to windy/twisty roads?

[Reckless_2k]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

noemon

Thanks for the detailed response! I did not know things were that bad. Interesting that a lease results in two owners being listed as having owned a lease. I also didn’t know the UK had the highest demand for cars per capita. I’m surprised this doesn’t drive up used car purchases or slow down depreciation on new cars.

So perhaps six cars in 32k miles is typical. It’s definitely not in the US.

You’re right about having some awesome road courses! I'd love to be able to drive on Silverstone!! US roads aren’t great and downright terrible in some cities. Most of our interstates and highways are decently maintained and a majority of roads are set at 70-75 mph but a decent number are still 55 mph.

How far do you have to drive to get to windy/twisty roads?

The biggest problem now is the introduction of Smart motorways which set variable speed limits depending on traffic conditions, naturally there are an abundance of cameras to ensure these limits are being followed.

I have some country roads about 4 miles away from me but they're not in the greatest condition.

There is still one motorway the M40 which has little to no cameras at the moment. It's common for people to go over 100mph on it.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Reckless_2k

The biggest problem now is the introduction of Smart motorways which set variable speed limits depending on traffic conditions, naturally there are an abundance of cameras to ensure these limits are being followed.

I have some country roads about 4 miles away from me but they're not in the greatest condition.

There is still one motorway the M40 which has little to no cameras at the moment. It's common for people to go over 100mph on it.

We have toll roads that have rates based on traffic demands and it’s not cheap. When the latest one opened, traffic was out of control but they didn’t update the overhead rates. People were hit with fees ranging between $200 to, I think it was, $2200! The rate was $54/mile! Commuters were out ranged so they said because the system is new and, therefore, they’d charge people based on the actual posted rates which is the only fair thing to do. Toll roads are becoming more popular with builders/funding sources and I have a feeling it’s going to be the toll model that’s used to build all new roadways. We also have cameras all over the place and the toll roads have their own police officers that setup laser to catch speeders. Then you have a lot of our local cities, usually the older and larger ones, with terrible road conditions and no budget to address them so they continue to deteriorate.

4 miles is nice! I have to drive at least one hour to get to lightly traveled windy roads in the mountains with 1200-2000 foot elevation changes with twisty roads. Going down you can toast stock pads and rotors. Sources from every direction is trying to stop us from doing what car enthusiasts like to do - drive!!

[noemon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

noemon

Thanks for the detailed response! I did not know things were that bad. Interesting that a lease results in two owners being listed as having owned a lease. I also didn’t know the UK had the highest demand for cars per capita. I’m surprised this doesn’t drive up used car purchases or slow down depreciation on new cars.

So perhaps six cars in 32k miles is typical. It’s definitely not in the US.

You’re right about having some awesome road courses! I'd love to be able to drive on Silverstone!! US roads aren’t great and downright terrible in some cities. Most of our interstates and highways are decently maintained and a majority of roads are set at 70-75 mph but a decent number are still 55 mph.

How far do you have to drive to get to windy/twisty roads?

The issue with windy/twisty roads in the UK is that there is none of high quality build. I live in the farmside, so do not have to drive at all to get to B-roads, all around my house I got them, but they are not windy roads you feel confident in, the potholes will break your wheels.

I have to drive less than 2 hours to be in France, which is then motorways and windy road heaven as the quality there is just next level.

Silvestone is awesome mate. Best quality track I've ever been, I go there every month. Snetterton, Brands Hatch, Bedford Autodrome, that's where I enjoy the car.

[Reckless_2k]

Originally Posted by noemon

Silvestone is awesome mate. Best quality track I've ever been, I go there every month. Snetterton, Brands Hatch, Bedford Autodrome, that's where I enjoy the car.

The closest I'll get to those is Gran Turismo!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

The issue with windy/twisty roads in the UK is that there is none of high quality build. I live in the farmside, so do not have to drive at all to get to B-roads, all around my house I got them, but they are not windy roads you feel confident in, the potholes will break your wheels.

I have to drive less than 2 hours to be in France, which is then motorways and windy road heaven as the quality there is just next level.

Silvestone is awesome mate. Best quality track I've ever been, I go there every month. Snetterton, Brands Hatch, Bedford Autodrome, that's where I enjoy the car.

It does suck when you have roads with a nice series of corners but the road has potholes and/or large cracks. I was out driving with a bunch of guys one weekend when we came around a blind corner and there was a giant frost heave which I couldn’t avoid. My left front Moton damper bottomed out internally and broke the compression adjuster. So I do understand what’s it like to have a fun section of road that’s just not useable.

At least you have a decent number of tracks near you. Silverstone’s layout is great. COTA is a great track, too, but it is ~23 hrs away from where I live so just a bit too far away.

[ajbM4cab]

Was there any reason for this car in particular.
I am also in UK and looking in Autotrader today there seems to be quite a few competition M3 2016/17/18 models also around these £££ figures.

[Reckless_2k]

Originally Posted by ajbM4cab

Was there any reason for this car in particular.
I am also in UK and looking in Autotrader today there seems to be quite a few competition M3 2016/17/18 models also around these £££ figures.

It is very nicely specced with the full leather interior including the dashboard, has an M Performance exhaust and the carbon exterior kit, the mileage is also low. Silverstone is my favourite colour along with mineral white, all of these make it an enticing buy but the number of owners is off putting especially if I want to sell in a couple of years.

[ajbM4cab]

Originally Posted by Reckless_2k

It is very nicely specced with the full leather interior including the dashboard, has an M Performance exhaust and the carbon exterior kit, the mileage is also low. Silverstone is my favourite colour along with mineral white, all of these make it an enticing buy but the number of owners is off putting especially if I want to sell in a couple of years.

Ok understand. I also have extended leather dashboard and agree it is a nice to have. But check the carbon kit is 100% authentic BMW genuine otherwise these aren’t too expensive to fit.
The competition exhaust does not sound to indifferent to the m performance one and proven also.
Sorry to sound hard here but hoping to help expand your search.
Do not give up on the search for the right car in this price range.

[Reckless_2k]

Originally Posted by ajbM4cab

Ok understand. I also have extended leather dashboard and agree it is a nice to have. But check the carbon kit is 100% authentic BMW genuine otherwise these aren’t too expensive to fit.
The competition exhaust does not sound to indifferent to the m performance one and proven also.
Sorry to sound hard here but hoping to help expand your search.
Do not give up on the search for the right car in this price range.

Ideally I would go for a non competition as I've heard the ride is significantly harsher than a competition, would you agree? Or is the difference negligible. It will be my only car and I will be driving my wife and 3 year old son to places.
The difference in insurance is also quite significant.

[ajbM4cab]

Originally Posted by Reckless_2k

Ideally I would go for a non competition as I've heard the ride is significantly harsher than a competition, would you agree? Or is the difference negligible. It will be my only car and I will be driving my wife and 3 year old son to places.
The difference in insurance is also quite significant.

Can’t really advise on that sorry as my competition is a cab. The cab having a softer stock setup than the coupe.
The ride in the cab is fine for a daily.

[Reckless_2k]

Originally Posted by ajbM4cab

Can’t really advise on that sorry as my competition is a cab. The cab having a softer stock setup than the coupe.
The ride in the cab is fine for a daily.

No problem.

The waiting game for the right car is going to kill me!

There's not many cars out there with less than 30,000 miles.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Reckless_2k

It is very nicely specced with the full leather interior including the dashboard, has an M Performance exhaust and the carbon exterior kit, the mileage is also low. Silverstone is my favourite colour along with mineral white, all of these make it an enticing buy but the number of owners is off putting especially if I want to sell in a couple of years.

I’d be careful wanting a care with leather dash because after years of abuse from the sun, the dash boards start to bubble in places. Other than replacing the entire dash, you’re stuck with it. There’s been ~15 cases on this forum. Also, my brother-in-law has been a BMW tech for over 30 years and he talked me out of getting full leather. I think the leather dash is awesome but, if it started bubbling, it would drive me crazy and I’d have to sell it. I ended up getting individual Opal White extended leather.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Reckless_2k

Ideally I would go for a non competition as I've heard the ride is significantly harsher than a competition, would you agree? Or is the difference negligible. It will be my only car and I will be driving my wife and 3 year old son to places.
The difference in insurance is also quite significant.

I have a non-Comp ‘16 model without edc (planned on swapping suspensions so why spend the extra money if I’m going to be removing it) and the ride was not harsher than a comp. I ordered my car with 513M 19” wheels which had a cushy ride compared to the 666M 20” wheels on the Comp. However, with my 19” aftermarket wheels, the ride quality is still better than a Comp. Although the dampers are different from ZCP/CS dampers, the CS edc coding still improves the ride quality of a non-Comp with edc. However, my MCS 2WR suspension setup outperforms the stock suspension in all categories,

[noemon]

I own an EDC car and find the EDC as a gimmick to justify a sub-par suspension.

Glad I got rid of it with the Intrax.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

I own an EDC car and find the EDC as a gimmick to justify a sub-par suspension.

Glad I got rid of it with the Intrax.

Now that you’ve had them installed for a while, how do you like their performance and ride quality with stock rates? Intrax is up there with the other high-end race dampers. Your 1-way dampers, adjusts both rebound and compression simultaneously, correct?

[noemon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Now that you’ve had them installed for a while, how do you like their performance and ride quality with stock rates? Intrax is up there with the other high-end race dampers. Your 1-way dampers, adjusts both rebound and compression simultaneously, correct?

Yeap 1 way for both rebound and compression, I'm really happy mate, will be testing on Bedford Autodrome very soon also.

The dampers are very well damped. You can be on full soft which is too soft for me, but still push the car to extreme limits. Once you go in the middle setting, the car is a star wars weapon, train on rails basically. I haven't put it on full hard aside from the first day when I was setting it up from full hard, but planning on going full-hard on Silverstone later this month.

Comfort is much upgraded from stock, not sure if it beats Tractive on comfort(they are very close and I need to refresh my tractive memory), but it certainly beats it on the track.

I am planning on doing a couple of tests with Tractive and Intrax once my Tractive coilovers come back from service.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by noemon

Yeap 1 way for both rebound and compression, I'm really happy mate, will be testing on Bedford Autodrome very soon also.

The dampers are very well damped. You can be on full soft which is too soft for me, but still push the car to extreme limits. Once you go in the middle setting, the car is a star wars weapon, train on rails basically. I haven't put it on full hard aside from the first day when I was setting it up from full hard, but planning on going full-hard on Silverstone later this month.

Comfort is much upgraded from stock, not sure if it beats Tractive on comfort(they are very close and I need to refresh my tractive memory), but it certainly beats it on the track.

I am planning on doing a couple of tests with Tractive and Intrax once my Tractive coilovers come back from service.

Forgot you had the Tractive edc setup with failed dampers. That’ll be a good comparison test but how well do the spring rates match?

Glad the Intrax are performing like you had hoped! It’s hard to describe how smooth and bump absorbing high-end dampers are and people don’t believe you until they’ve had a chance to experience it first hand themselves.