Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

My only point is the car was criticized a lot, but people act like it wasn’t.

As cars get more and more electrified, most will get more and more disconnected. The cars previously will always seem better in hindsight, to some degree.

I get that, these cars, especially from BMW, Benz and Audi all serve a purpose and the engineers behind them generally have their hands tied with what they are able to do. M cars are all based from a base 3 chassis and if those cars aren't great to being with then, what can you realistically do? G8x from a performance standpoint is pretty much a monster, much like the F8x cars being torque monsters that BMW had to essentially dial it back with firmware updates. I still remember most of the complaints for when the F8x came out was mostly with exhaust and engine noise being terrible but I mean, that car came after a E9x M cars with a NA V8. Not a lot of cars will sound great compared to the S65. I heard just about every setup the F8x can do exhaust wise and none of it really completely removes that noise the S55 is always associated with. Rattly and doesn't sound that great when you start revving it out.

Maybe in a few years, the G8x will look better in hindsight but we will see where BMW goes from here. I don't really hate the G8x M3 or M4 but the car just isn't my taste anymore. It isn't really even the AWD or any of that, something about the car just isn't doing it for me and it isn't the exterior looks. Think it has mainly to do with the ZF.

The F8x cars were definitely criticized a lot when it was released but I mean again it followed the E9x Ms and I don't think that would give the F8x cars that good of a reception to begin with unless it had a revised S65 too.

[ASAP]

I agree the F80 was criticized but you have to admit it was for different reasons...

The main criticism was terrible sound and moving away from an NA V8... well we can all agree on that but it made it up in so many ways.

The car wasn't in any way less connected than the E90... in fact it was the reverse with the solid rear subframe and the chassis felt sublime. It was also lighter and the marketing was focused 100% around the driver... they even went out of their way to focus on CF components, the highest revving BMW turbo motor, how the DCT was improved and numerous other driver focused items.

On the other hand the G80 is a far more insulated, less connected, heavier car with a borderline unecessary AWD system... the RWD car has so much grip but it's done to gain market share. Also - let's go back to the marketing side of things... it was basically a Tik Tok / Instagram release by people that don't know anything about cars... and it was focused at those people too.

There is nothing wrong with the G80 as a performance car - it's the best M3 yet... there is however a ton wrong with how the M3 feels and drives and where it's focus shifted. BMW had a special "different" car with the M3 and history... I am at a point where I cannot tell the difference between it and tons of other heavy sedans. In fact, when I drove it... i was extremely confused that it was an M car... and never had I felt that before... maybe I am a boomer and need a Porsche (fun fact I am only 34 )

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's the same thing everybody said about the F8X too.

From the reviews, it would seem that the MY 2015 & 2016 F8x just didn't quite have it dialed in. But late in 2017 and 2018, they seemed to figure out what they had messed up. The car just drove different. I know they detuned it a bit, but there was other stuff done too (and let's be honest, the 20" wheels were done for looks, not performance - that really hurt the car in later reviews as well). But the 2018 with 19" wheels really had it spot on.

[Car-Addicted]

I have an affinity for all things BMW up to 2021. I have owned a number and worked on a lot more as an owner of a independent garage back in the 70's. To be honest, if Angela Merkel showed up at my doorstep with a current M4 for free, it would be on Bring a Trailer the next day. I have been hunting for clean, low mileage 2020 M4 CS and Heritage for quite a while. It took me a while to figure out that by the time a car appears on BMW's certified site it is already sold. Wednesday I take delivery of a M4 CS w/ceramic brakes. Mission is complete. Sadly garage space requires me getting rid of a 2015 F31 M spec wagon which is one of the most impressive cars I have owned.
After a spirited test drive of the 2020 M4 SC I'm confident that I have a new favorite ride.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I agree the F80 was criticized but you have to admit it was for different reasons...

The main criticism was terrible sound and moving away from an NA V8... well we can all agree on that but it made it up in so many ways.

The car wasn't in any way less connected than the E90... in fact it was the reverse with the solid rear subframe and the chassis felt sublime. It was also lighter and the marketing was focused 100% around the driver... they even went out of their way to focus on CF components, the highest revving BMW turbo motor, how the DCT was improved and numerous other driver focused items.

On the other hand the G80 is a far more insulated, less connected, heavier car with a borderline unecessary AWD system... the RWD car has so much grip but it's done to gain market share. Also - let's go back to the marketing side of things... it was basically a Tik Tok / Instagram release by people that don't know anything about cars... and it was focused at those people too.

There is nothing wrong with the G80 as a performance car - it's the best M3 yet... there is however a ton wrong with how the M3 feels and drives and where it's focus shifted. BMW had a special "different" car with the M3 and history... I am at a point where I cannot tell the difference between it and tons of other heavy sedans. In fact, when I drove it... i was extremely confused that it was an M car... and never had I felt that before... maybe I am a boomer and need a Porsche (fun fact I am only 34 )

Whilst I've not driven an M3 older than my 2016, I've been in every G80-3 and G87 besides 6MT and CSL and I agree with the assessment of the new cars vs F8x.

For many others, the ease of with which the G8x go fast in a straight line and in corners, the overall capability, the sorted suspension, CF buckets, etc. account to a fun daily sports car.

Like, even I wish my F80 rode as well as the G80 CS - I am still surprised at the difference between G80/81 Comp and CS - and other stuff that were improved over the F80... but to me, personally, they are no more fun. I never get out of one and think to myself, "dang, wish I owned it." I get out and happily get into my old M3 or the G20 Alpina.

What current model I really enjoyed driving was the M550i. Get rid of the M badges and it's a great 7/10ths cruiser with a proper burbly sound.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Maybe in a few years, the G8x will look better in hindsight but we will see where BMW goes from here.

I don't think many will ever think that, though I can certainly see your point. The design is now in its fourth model year, and and while looking ugly to me it's now starting to look dated as well. It's just a terrible, terrible design all the way around that I don't see ever getting easier on my eyes. Believe me I have tried so hard to like the car but it's never going to happen for me.

Compare that with the F8X cars. I remember driving home from work sometime in 2015 in my Z4M, and seeing my first F82 on the road in Sakhir Orange. I instantly fell in love with that car, I slowed down just so I could stay behind it until it exited as it was amazing to look at (even completely stock). I knew I'd own one some day soon, and in 2017 I bought my first one. I still think they're one of the most beautiful cars on the road for a realistic price, and can be enhanced so much with a mild drop and some nice carbon add-ons.

The G8x is just the first generation I simply cannot get behind. I know there are others who think like me too.

The G80 CS in all black is *maybe* a car I could live with, but I wouldn't trade my current car for one.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by NickyC

The G8x is just the first generation I simply cannot get behind. I know there are others who think like me too.

I don't want to just pick on BMW as a lot of companies are pulling the "New Coke" version of automotive design. Lexus and Audi come to mind.

[ASAP]

I will add one more comment-

there was a statement made that each M car is built off of how good the base car is...

well that's true... except the G series M340i is an outstanding car... its better than the F series 340i in every way... its better handling, even better steering imho and faster... and has better tech... it completes the updated mission very well.

So what the hell happened with the M3? It somehow became MORE pedestrian and toned down than the F series it replaced

[NSX2M4]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Spent Monday and Tuesday at a BMW club track event. There were three G80, two G82 and one G87. Glad to see them being put to good use

The G80 is the only one I can bare the looks of, it blends nicely muscularity and elegance, and retained sufficient traditional design cues to still look like a BMW despite the big grill. It’s probably the best car in its segment at this point in time. I still can’t bare the looks of the G82 from any angle, it’s just an incohesive design overall and does not look like a BMW to me; there are many better 2-door offerings on the market IMO. The G87 looks even worse IRL. It looks decent from the direct side view, where it retained enough traditional BMW design cues, but from any other angle, I find the design elements do not blend well.

It's painful to say but I agree. I was driving next to a Brooklyn Grey G80 with Kamala Orange interior and man if it wasn't for it turning left and me seeing those coffins I'd be trading up...

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by NSX2M4

It's painful to say but I agree. I was driving next to a Brooklyn Grey G80 with Kamala Orange interior and man if it wasn't for it turning left and me seeing those coffins I'd be trading up...

Two words for BMW and all the other auto manufacturers: Focus Group

[NSX2M4]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Two words for BMW and all the other auto manufacturers: Focus Group

I've always loved the hips of the F80 but the rear deck looks too high and the tail lights do not flow seamlessly. They just fall off a cliff on the splits. The G80 fixed all that and the front fenders have huge flares, but then there's the front... Could've been such a home run BMW.

[NSX2M4]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I will add one more comment-

there was a statement made that each M car is built off of how good the base car is...

well that's true... except the G series M340i is an outstanding car... its better than the F series 340i in every way... its better handling, even better steering imho and faster... and has better tech... it completes the updated mission very well.

So what the hell happened with the M3? It somehow became MORE pedestrian and toned down than the F series it replaced

People bitched that the cars power is unmanageable. Which, in the hands of an inexperienced driver and DSC inactive it most certainly is. But in the hands of a good driver, it's so much fun.Anytime I think about buying a tune, I simply deactivate DSC and it could land me in jail in a heartbeat.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The car wasn't in any way less connected than the E90... in fact it was the reverse with the solid rear subframe and the chassis felt sublime. It was also lighter and the marketing was focused 100% around the driver... they even went out of their way to focus on CF components, the highest revving BMW turbo motor, how the DCT was improved and numerous other driver focused items.

This is a revisionist's take on the F8X. It absolutely was criticized for its steering and lack of connection (...with many complaints of a "dead center" in the steering wheel feel), especially relative to the E9X. Back then everybody was on the "EPS is evil" bandwagon and complained about the lack of feedback and vagueness. I remember it all pretty vividly because I was defending BMW's decisions with that car too. Again, people have short memories.

[NickyC]

Numb feeling/steering, bad/piped in exhaust sounds were demerits for the F8X from day one as I remember it.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This is a revisionist's take on the F8X. It absolutely was criticized for its steering and lack of connection (...with many complaints of a "dead center" in the steering wheel feel), especially relative to the E9X. Back then everybody was on the "EPS is evil" bandwagon and complained about the lack of feedback and vagueness. I remember it all pretty vividly because I was defending BMW's decisions with that car too. Again, people have short memories.

Proper tires and a proper alignment fixed the F8X steering. The E9X steering was not stellar out of the box either.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Proper tires and a proper alignment fixed the F8X steering. The E9X steering was not stellar out of the box either.

Not to mention revised EPS software. I wasn't really all that bothered with the steering in any of the cars much like I've never been bothered by the 6MT in any of the M's either. I'm only presenting the facts surrounding the criticisms about the car(s).

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Spent Monday and Tuesday at a BMW club track event. There were three G80, two G82 and one G87. Glad to see them being put to good use

The G80 is the only one I can bare the looks of, it blends nicely muscularity and elegance, and retained sufficient traditional design cues to still look like a BMW despite the big grill. It’s probably the best car in its segment at this point in time. I still can’t bare the looks of the G82 from any angle, it’s just an incohesive design overall and does not look like a BMW to me; there are many better 2-door offerings on the market IMO. The G87 looks even worse IRL. It looks decent from the direct side view, where it retained enough traditional BMW design cues, but from any other angle, I find the design elements do not blend well.

G80 in BSM works well. Hides some of the awkward lines and the godawful grilles. Shame the car is borderline too big to park in the city.

[Fugly M3]

Have we all seen the new Toyota Avalon? Just saw one this afternoon whilst walking the dogs and was . If you thought the G8X grills were bad...

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This is a revisionist's take on the F8X. It absolutely was criticized for its steering and lack of connection (...with many complaints of a "dead center" in the steering wheel feel), especially relative to the E9X. Back then everybody was on the "EPS is evil" bandwagon and complained about the lack of feedback and vagueness. I remember it all pretty vividly because I was defending BMW's decisions with that car too. Again, people have short memories.

No one is saying it wasn't...i drove my friends F80 when he got it in 2014 and 3 things stood out - steering definitely had a crappy dead center, it sounded subpar and I thought the car was a bit too bouncy for my liking (without adaptive suspension).

However, each reiterative version made that much better... by the time we got the comp and especially the F87 comp, outside of the sound, the other things were fixed. My M2 comp steering was perfect and that was never a complaint. I also don't recall a major group of people including enthusiasts that said they no longer had ANY interest in an F80 when it was released... the G80 is the polar opposite... 60% of buyers are entirely new to the brand and M cars.

I just don't know how you fix the G80 issues... you can't just reverse weight, size and a massive feeling of overall isolation... nor can you fix the S58 torque curve without tuning and immediately voiding warranty... perhaps all that is fixed w the CS but it comes at a price point that doesn't work for most people.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ASAP

No one is saying it wasn't...i drove my friends F80 when he got it in 2014 and 3 things stood out - steering definitely had a crappy dead center, it sounded subpar and I thought the car was a bit too bouncy for my liking (without adaptive suspension).

However, each reiterative version made that much better... by the time we got the comp and especially the F87 comp, outside of the sound, the other things were fixed. My M2 comp steering was perfect and that was never a complaint. I also don't recall a major group of people including enthusiasts that said they no longer had ANY interest in an F80 when it was released... the G80 is the polar opposite... 60% of buyers are entirely new to the brand and M cars.

I just don't know how you fix the G80 issues... you can't just reverse weight, size and a massive feeling of overall isolation... nor can you fix the S58 torque curve without tuning and immediately voiding warranty... perhaps all that is fixed w the CS but it comes at a price point that doesn't work for most people.

With all due respect, you’re pulling percentages out of nowhere. There is no way to truly qualify that statement and some random internet poll isn’t sufficient. We can play the anecdotal game, but even that holds little credence. It’s funny…..because people said the same thing about F8X owners (…and to some degree, E9X turbo car owners), throwing out random percentages and claiming the introduction of turbocharged motors brought new buyers to the brand with a pejorative undertone much like your statement. I don’t personally know a G8X owner who is new to the brand. Every last one of them have owned prior ///M3’s, ///M4’s or ///M5’s. When I had a G8X on order, I surely wasn’t new to the brand either. If it weren’t for buying the 992, I would be nearly 2 years into G8X ownership.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

With all due respect, you’re pulling percentages out of nowhere. There is no way to truly qualify that statement and some random internet poll isn’t sufficient. We can play the anecdotal game, but even that holds little credence. It’s funny…..because people said the same thing about F8X owners (…and to some degree, E9X turbo car owners), throwing out random percentages and claiming the introduction of turbocharged motors brought new buyers to the brand with a pejorative undertone much like your statement. I don’t personally know a G8X owner who is new to the brand. Every last one of them have owned prior ///M3’s, ///M4’s or ///M5’s. When I had a G8X on order, I surely wasn’t new to the brand either. If it weren’t for buying the 992, I would be nearly 2 years into G8X ownership.

That's not my opinion or a poll... that is the EXACT reason why it's so hard to buy one now and we are still seeing allocation issues 3 years in.

I spoke to a few dealership buddies and they all said the same exact thing - the introduction of AWD has made the M3 a far more universal car - wheras once it was mainly reserved for enthusiasts being RWD only... it is now open to many new markets with all types of weather conditions. The take rate of the AWD vs RWD Comp just backs that up.

Do you think that many more enthusiasts just suddenly showed up? Well that's interesting considering the enthusiasts / sports car market as a whole is entirely dying. Do you think BMW is limiting allocations? I thought so too but now have realized that 3 years in they've produced way more than the F80 3 years in.

In 2014, I could walk on a lot and buy an f80 at a discount... the same 2 years later... so what happened? What happened is a ton of new entrants came into the market propping demand. A TON of these guys came from the Audi world.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That's not my opinion or a poll... that is the EXACT reason why it's so hard to buy one now and we are still seeing allocation issues 3 years in.

I spoke to a few dealership buddies and they all said the same exact thing - the introduction of AWD has made the M3 a far more universal car - wheras once it was mainly reserved for enthusiasts being RWD only... it is now open to many new markets with all types of weather conditions. The take rate of the AWD vs RWD Comp just backs that up.

Do you think that many more enthusiasts just suddenly showed up? Well that's interesting considering the enthusiasts / sports car market as a whole is entirely dying. Do you think BMW is limiting allocations? I thought so too but now have realized that 3 years in they've produced way more than the F80 3 years in.

In 2014, I could walk on a lot and buy an f80 at a discount... the same 2 years later... so what happened? What happened is a ton of new entrants came into the market...

There are many factors contributing to sales, but again, you’re pulling random numbers out of thin air. Yes, AWD has added market share, but that doesn’t mean the vast majority are new buyers. We’ll never truly know the real number because we have no way of verifying. Like I mentioned, we’re all playing the anecdotal game here. I talk to G8X owners every single day here in SoCal. I haven’t met ONE that was new to BMW.

You must’ve lived in a different 2014 than I did. When I bought my 2015 YMB M4 in 2014, they were all selling with a mark-up (…however slight or significant); mine was an ordered car. We just came off COVID lockdowns, chip shortages, etc. You sure are disregarding a myriad of other factors affecting availability, demand, etc.