6MT or DCT?

[Sassicaia]

You'll miss it IMO. Reason I purchased the F80 with a manual is because it could be one of the last great manual cars from BMW (one of the last few from anywhere actually). Driving a manual is about 75% of driving enjoyment for me. Every time I drive any type of car that
Automatically changes gears, or removes the clutch/ads paddles etc I get bored.

I get the extra speed you get from DCT but I'm chasing the engagement not extra speed at this point. The F8x is faster then I'll ever need it to be already.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by CSanto

I don't want to get into a 6MT vs DCT debate here

Then why start this thread...

[dmk08]

Sold my E90 M3 6MT for an E92 DCT. Was bored in 6 months and bough a manual F80.

It was night and day faster in the E9x (and in the F8x I test drove) but not worth it to me as a person who just wants to enjoy driving.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Then why start this thread...

Right?

It's like walking into a Weight Watchers meeting with a pallet full of Twinkies and saying - now, I'm not trying to cause any conflict here, but... I've got these free promotional Twinkies I have to give away...

[Nadeemp8]

Just got into an F80 M3 with a 6MT. I've been on the search for something sporty and have driven many cars, however I found that no matter how fast it is, I get out of an automatic vehicle with less excitement than something with a third pedal. That being said it is VERY hard to find a solid 6MT vehicle nowadays, and believe the F80 is one of the last of it's breed with a 6MT. I have a feeling they will go the way of the M5 and move to a DCT only, and that will be a very sad day for us all...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Nadeemp8

Just got into an F80 M3 with a 6MT. I've been on the search for something sporty and have driven many cars, however I found that no matter how fast it is, I get out of an automatic vehicle with less excitement than something with a third pedal. That being said it is VERY hard to find a solid 6MT vehicle nowadays, and believe the F80 is one of the last of it's breed with a 6MT. I have a feeling they will go the way of the M5 and move to a DCT only, and that will be a very sad day for us all...

I think BMW will continue to offer 6MT on the M3/M4. Too many buyers opt for it, unlike the traditional M5 buyer. Porsche tried doing away with the MT and they are now bringing it back because their customer base demands it.

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Sold my E90 M3 6MT for an E92 DCT. Was bored in 6 months and bough a manual F80.

It was night and day faster in the E9x (and in the F8x I test drove) but not worth it to me as a person who just wants to enjoy driving.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Right?

It's like walking into a Weight Watchers meeting with a pallet full of Twinkies and saying - now, I'm not trying to cause any conflict here, but... I've got these free promotional Twinkies I have to give away...

I guess the mods agreed that it was a 6mt vs dct thread lol.

I was more hoping that people would respond to my specific situation

DECISIONS

[jpdchicago]

6 MT all the way. What is the point of DCT unless you are into racing and absolutely need to get that extra 10th of a second.
The M3/M4 is all about involvment. It is not a commuter car. It makes commuting fun.
In my 12th year of DD MT M3s.

[tooshay]

All my BMW before has been 6 spd manual until my f80 now. I couldn't find a 6 spd manual with the color and options I wanted. I got a great deal on dct and took it. I do miss the 3rd pedal and shifting myself. I felt more engage and a better driver with the manual. The dct definitely is faster on the straight away but I am slower on the turns and corners.

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by tooshay

The dct definitely is faster on the straight away but I am slower on the turns and corners.

Makes no sense at all, DCT will be faster both in a straight line and in a corner, unless you wanna tell me that you can shift using a clutch pedal and manually moving the shift knob to the desired gear faster than a computer can (ie. DCT)

[Mr Pete]

I have a 16 M3 DCT. Before I bought the M3, test drove a M4 DCT, and thought it was so amazing, I ended up ordering the M3.

Fast forward 1 year, and I feel bored and disconnected to it. I have actually been having more fun driving around in my 05 WRX wagon that I picked up a few months ago to use as a daily. Now I have a 17 M4 manual on order, and I can't wait!

[tooshay]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

Makes no sense at all, DCT will be faster both in a straight line and in a corner, unless you wanna tell me that you can shift using a clutch pedal and manually moving the shift knob to the desired gear faster than a computer can (ie. DCT)

There's a reason why most racer on the track use manual. I can jump around with the manual versus having to go thru each one with dct. Maybe I just have to learn how to track with dct. Time will tell.

[DreamSlider ///M]

I personally vote for the 6MT (only did a couple of test drives with each, have a 6MT on a boat now). My current car is a '15 GTI -and I let them talk me into their DCT... it's fine, but I miss the pure feel of a properly executed gear switch that an MT offers... I never miss a shift in the GTI, but I really can't, and that feels less satisfying somehow.

That said, VW DCT is not BMW DCT... I took an M3 DCT out before deciding on the MT and just didn't love how the DCT felt at low range... it felt a lot more jerky that the MT and I wasn't in love... this cemented the MT as my purchase.

Full disclosure: I've missed an MT ever since I bought the GTI and the availability of MT is one (of quite a few honestly) of the reasons I'm leaving Audi/VW and coming over to BMW.

Either way, test drive them both (multiple times if necessary) and buy the one that speaks to you.

Happy driving!

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by tooshay

There's a reason why most racer on the track use manual. I can jump around with the manual versus having to go thru each one with dct. Maybe I just have to learn how to track with dct. Time will tell.

Here's a tip. Let's say you're in 5th gear at 80 MPH. If you floor the gas to the kick down point and while your foot remains floored, if you downshift once it will shift to the lowest possible gear for that speed to give you the max acceleration so you don't have to downshift one gear at a time

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by tooshay

There's a reason why most racer on the track use manual. I can jump around with the manual versus having to go thru each one with dct. Maybe I just have to learn how to track with dct. Time will tell.

"Most racers on the track use manual'?

I don't know what racers you are referring to but the members of my driving club include the 2016 Ferrari Challenge Champion, two SCCA national champions, the only American Driver that is driving for an American Formula 1 team and several members who race in the LeMans and Daytona 24 hours and the 12 Hours of Sebring. None of them prefer MT on the track, One of the members of the club, who has been racing professionally for many years, showed me a dash cam video taken at Sebring where he was driving a race prepared Porsche Cayman with an MT and chasing a similar Cayman with a DCT. He would get behind the DCT car and be ready to pass when it came time to upshift. At that point the DCT car would gain a few feet and he was unable to pass. It took a few laps before he was able to get by him. When I asked how he liked DCT transmissions his answer was "I like anything that makes the car go faster". In any case most modern race cars use two pedal paddle shifted single or dual clutch transmissions and even if they are manual transmissions they tend to be sequential racing transmissions that can not skip gears.

Whether an MT is more fun or engaging is a matter of opinion and is certainly open to debate (as this thread certainly shows) but I don't think any serious racer, or at least any racer who is interested in winning is going to be interested in a manual transmission in a race car because in this day and age a manual transmission in a race car is going to put you at a competitive disadvantage.

On a street car, there are two basic varieties of automatically shifted transmissions that allow manual shifting, There are automatic gearboxes that allow for manual shifting, and there are manual gearboxes with automatic clutches. Neither of these have clutch pedals, but the later does have a clutch. This is an important distinction as using a clutch means there is no torque converter and therefore less parasitic power loss. However on many modern cars with "conventional" planetary geared automatic transmissions with torque converters there is a clutch assembly that locks up the torque converter once the car is under way to eliminate parasitic loss. The 8 Speed BMW Steptronic used in non M cars is an example of this. On some planetary geared ATs the torque converter is eliminated and is replaced by a multi-plate clutch. Some AMG Mercedes use this type of transmission,

A true racing transmission is somewhat different. A true sequential gearbox is basically what the automatic clutch version (the BMW DCT for example) in street cars are based after. This is a gearbox that is mostly manually shifted. But after that the picture becomes blurred, and will depend on just what is allowed or not allowed under the rules. As such you will find some cars with varying degrees.

Examples:
An F1 car has a completely automated clutch. Upshifts are mostly done by computer but can also be done by the driver. Downshifts are driver controlled. There is no clutch pedal.

A WRC Car has a nearly fully automated clutch. Upshifts can be done automatically, but are more often controlled by the driver. Downshifts are driver controlled. There is a clutch pedal, but this is normally only used for starting from a dead stop.

An ALMS GT car has a partially automatic clutch. Upshifts are mostly automatic, though can be driver controlled. Downshifts are driver controlled. There is a clutch pedal, this is used as normal though it is not needed for computer controlled upshifts. Heel-toe techniques are still needed for downshifting.

A Spec Miata has a completely manual clutch and clutch pedal. All functions are fully driver controlled and use a clutch pedal.

You'll find most pro level GT racing is similar to the ALMS GT class, which is shifted like a sequential, but still requires the clutch for starting and for downshifting. At the amatuer level in GT classes you'll mostly find a mix of this, as well as the good old basic fully manual gearboxes. If you move into Sports racers and open wheel cars you'll find a mix of all of the above depending mostly on when the car/series was developed (ie. expect a full manual gearbox in something like a Formula Vee, but you will probably find fully automatic gearboxes in CSR.

[Richy Rich]

I'd change my vote to 6mt now that I don't drive my beater in peak LA traffic, more fun experience.

[Richy Rich]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

Here's a tip. Let's say you're in 5th gear at 80 MPH. If you floor the gas to the kick down point and while your foot remains floored, if you downshift once it will shift to the lowest possible gear for that speed to give you the max acceleration so you don't have to downshift one gear at a time

Can just hold the paddle and it'll jump to lowest gear.

[itrsteve]

Originally Posted by Brasko

Drive the manual while you can. Soon we will be living in a world filled with DCT/Automatic/Autonomous vehicles.

That's my thought too. I did 3 years with a DCT and while it was great, it got really boring.

The 6mt on these things are awesome, my favorite manual to date.

Plus, who knows how long getting a manual will even still be an option and you have the rest of your life to drive an automatic. Enjoy these things while they last.

[F80Moe]

Why do I feel that when driving a manual, I tend to be a more "Sensible" and "Safer" driver?

Is that cause its harder to go fast? Or the pleasure of going fast fades away going through the gears?

Who feels the same here?

[bringbacklsb]

Originally Posted by F80Moe

Why do I feel that when driving a manual, I tend to be a more "Sensible" and "Safer" driver?

Is that cause its harder to go fast? Or the pleasure of going fast fades away going through the gears?

Who feels the same here?

That is one reason why I prefer manual. With DCT it is tempting to always test the limits of the car, while with manual I get enough enjoyment out of shifting to reduce my need for speed. I don't think it's harder to go faster, but my senses are distracted by the pleasure of shifting and are less prone to focus on the sensation of speed. But there are times when I will opt for both

[01101001]

I live in a heavy traffic, hilly, dark, rainy area, and I have zero interest in fiddling with a manual under those conditions. Perhaps if I lived in nowhere america where the roads are miles and miles of straight, dry, empty farm adjacent, then I'd consider a manual.

I don't need excessive driver involvement, nor do I want an autopilot tesla while I recline in my seat and sleep.
A DCT is the exact amount for me.

[Richy Rich]

Originally Posted by F80Moe

Why do I feel that when driving a manual, I tend to be a more "Sensible" and "Safer" driver?

Is that cause its harder to go fast? Or the pleasure of going fast fades away going through the gears?

Who feels the same here?

This is me 100%, granted I'm not a very skilled manual driver. I'm just not as interested in trying to go from light to light like a tesla owner.