Exciting Weekend...

[kitesurfer]

Congrats on the New M4 The video is scary but highlights how at the track the completely unexpected does happen .

In regards to your insurance, did you have specific track policy or standard "street" policy. I ask because I have considered getting track policy however, when I compare coverages & exclusions my "street" policy comes out as a winner. Also how did you handle the insurance claim , did you call the company right away and have them send an adjuster out to the track. I assume not? I assume you had it towed to the dealership and then filed the claim ...sorry for the detailed questions as I am not sure how I would handle the insurance claim should I experience a crash at the track

[Andrew115]

Originally Posted by Caelric

Huh. What insurance company did you have that covered the damage? If you don't mind me asking, of course.

I would like to know also. That seems well worth it.

[jc05e46m3]

Wow, glad you're okay!

[karussell]

I have seen a 997.2 GT3 lockup rear and do same thing at imola last year. its a worrying condition and happens. To say a 911 is rear brake bias sensitive is the understatement of the year. all it takes is for one of the caliper pistons to have some debree jam it and done. i examine all the boots on the pistons before taking my GT3 on the track. PSM may have caused it to stick by applying the rear brakes multiple times previous to the incident. anyways there are a myriad of causes and unfortunately with the 911 this is the typical result.

I agree wholeheartedly. A GT3 is no car to learn in. It is a fantastic track car but not for the timid or untrained. on the contrary an M3 any M3 is a great teacher. its very forgiving but also very neutral and responds to your inputs. i think for a beginner the current M3/M4 is a little too powerful however so using a higher gear than normal would help with picking up fundamentals. please tell me you specced a manual!

I'm glad you got out of the GT3 safely. bummer it happened. enjoy the M3 in good health. if you pick it up in europe certainly should find a way to get it on the nordschleife at least once

Originally Posted by FTS

We had a number of issues the first month, so it was at the dealer for several weeks. We only were driving it 5-6K mi. a year, so the battery drained rapidly, and once while on the road the car just died, unbelievably true, and dealer did not cover it under 'free' maintenance because we were not driving it often enough. But most of all, I think the dealers' attitudes just turned turned us off, so switched to Porsche and Lexus for the past 8-9 years. It took about 3 years to iron out all the issues, now the car runs 99% fine with 48K miles. I hope things have gotten better, or this is the last BMW ever.


997.2 GT3. Going down the front straight into the braking zone, rear brakes locked up unevenly and sent us to the wall. Porsche field tech looked at it and concluded that "PSM must have been confused." I had a student (an e92 M driver ironically) with me, so I had left PSM on, which I never do otherwise, and was driving quite modestly. Of course I don't believe their assessment, but that is all I got out of them, and the ECU download does not show anything. So, I am guessing it was the rear brake caliper/pistons failing, although there is no conclusive physical evidence of it.



I would not let my son drive the GT3, and now he cannot, so this time around he will have the M4 after getting educated more seriously, M school is just a start.


Yes luckily they covered all damages.



Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I won't be visiting, just picking up the car, driving around for couple hours and returning it back; I will be on travel in the area for other purposes

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by karussell

I agree wholeheartedly. A GT3 is no car to learn in. It is a fantastic track car but not for the timid or untrained. on the contrary an M3 any M3 is a great teacher. its very forgiving but also very neutral and responds to your inputs. i think for a beginner the current M3/M4 is a little too powerful however so using a higher gear than normal would help with picking up fundamentals. please tell me you specced a manual!

This is one of the reasons I'm all for an m3. However, I think part of my learning curve is going to be sticking to short/technical tracks for awhile because this car is going to be too easy to get up to ridiculous speeds for learning.

While I don't necessarily think I want to be autocrossing my m3, I may focus on local bigger autocross tracks or slower tracks to learn on for quite some time.

Anyway, I just went to a BMW autocross event in a 228i - stock - and it was a brilliant car to learn in. The brakes were too weak for me, and the throttle response sucked especially for a VERY short track, but the chassis and steering were just right for the occasion.

[CSBM5]

Wow, what a crazy occurrence. I would have done a detailed analysis of the whole braking system, rear suspension, etc, as that is just insane. I'm reminded of a similar incident that happened almost 30 years ago now where a friend totaled a Euro E28 M535i in that exact spot at Summit Point at one of our "hot shoe" fall track days. In his case, the car had a dogleg 1st gear shift pattern, and he was downshifting from 4th to 3rd and caught 1st instead. Car rotated off track to the right, hit on the left side and there was a crease all along the centerline of the roof -- super hard hit, but he walked away ok, just shaken up. Glad you and the student were ok!

[FTS]

Originally Posted by JoshuaKM

Awesome color choice? What color interior & options did you get for your M4?

Thank you. We wanted as stealthy as possible, so we went for MG/Black combination, Drivers asst. and exec packages, adaptive susp., usb thingy and HK sound. The only other thing we need is a big a** gold chain on our necks to match the caliper colors

Originally Posted by RocketBoots

OP, I'm guessing yes, but did you test drive the M3/M4?? Not sure how much you can really tell with a 20 min test drive in a car that can't be pushed... Or was you decision to buy based solely on looks?

BTW, good thing you and the passenger are OK.

Yes I test drove twice, was quite impressed actually, I have a post about my test drive somewhere here.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

FTS, wow what a journey you have been on. I think the M4 with the CCB's will be an excellent car for what it sounds like you have planned for it. I too, have the itch to head to the track more often. The M4 will make an excellent track car and daily driver in one package. Good luck.

Please come to our next event in August, I assure you it will be a ton of fun, it is Porschefest event

Originally Posted by Money2536

Watching that video sterilizes my desire to head back out to the track. Congrats on the M3 order!

I do have a question, since you are seem to be a "real" car guy by heading to the track often. Why all this talk of getting CCBs for the track? Aren't the rotors going to crack due to overheating and be rendered useless after a few days at the track? Don't most all of the P-car track cars' CCBs get swapped out for steel?

Thank you very much. CCBs truly wear out slower than conventional rotors. Porsche guys change them because they don't get free maintenance, not because CCBs are bad performers. And you probably well know, all Porsche guys are in it for resale, so keeping the CCBs safe and sound makes good sense for resale. Here with BMW there is free maintenance, so the rotors are covered. Used them up and have them change it, the best deal in the century if you ask me, not to mention that you get 6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers. I honestly cannot think of the downside, besides initial purchase price. As you have probably seen the vid, I am very sensitive about the brake, particularly now

But we'll see, I will take them to the track, test it and we'll conclude then if they are worth it. If not worth it, I'll be the first to warn all, trust me on that.

Originally Posted by Caelric

Huh. What insurance company did you have that covered the damage? If you don't mind me asking, of course.

Originally Posted by kitesurfer

Congrats on the New M4

In regards to your insurance, did you have specific track policy or standard "street" policy. I ask because I have considered getting track policy however, when I compare coverages & exclusions my "street" policy comes out as a winner. Also how did you handle the insurance claim , did you call the company right away and have them send an adjuster out to the track. I assume not? I assume you had it towed to the dealership and then filed the claim ...sorry for the detailed questions as I am not sure how I would handle the insurance claim should I experience a crash at the track

Thank you very much. Regular insurance ACE Private Risk Services. Many years ago I learned not to deal with insurance companies directly, so I now have an agent, Hoffman and Hoffman. Family business for generations, and the nicest car enthusiasts you'll ever meet. They handle all of my insurance interactions, negotiate and represent me. They picked the company for me, negotiated my rates and they told me to report it to insurance. They know all the insurance laws, so nothing passes them by. They convinced the insurance company to cover, and ACE is known to always do the right thing for their customers.

I did take them to the track, showed them where it happened, what I was doing, etc. and gave them the video. Being straight up with them is very important, and I was, and they returned the courtesy back to me and it all worked out. But I have a huge thanks to give to Hoffman and Hoffman. If you need their contact, let me know, I have been with them for long time.

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Wow, glad you're okay!

Thank you very much.

Originally Posted by karussell

I have seen a 997.2 GT3 lockup rear and do same thing at imola last year. its a worrying condition and happens. To say a 911 is rear brake bias sensitive is the understatement of the year. all it takes is for one of the caliper pistons to have some debree jam it and done. i examine all the boots on the pistons before taking my GT3 on the track. PSM may have caused it to stick by applying the rear brakes multiple times previous to the incident. anyways there are a myriad of causes and unfortunately with the 911 this is the typical result.

I am so glad you mentioned this. The Porsche field tech said there were six other similar instances in the US, but none of the car configurations were close enough to draw any meaningful conclusion, mine was completely stock. But I do understand that the 911s and GT3s have a weakness in this area, which frankly I never knew about.

I think it is very important for all of us to realize that weather it is an M3/4 or GT2/3 etc. they are still street cars. The electronics do not necessarily support the mechanical capability of these cars. So, unless we are on motorsport ECU, ESP and ABS, please drive it knowing you cannot race at the limit at all times with these cars.

Thank you all for your good wishes and concerns, much appreciated.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by FTS

Thank you very much. CCBs truly wear out slower than conventional rotors. Porsche guys change them because they don't get free maintenance, not because CCBs are bad performers.

My understanding is the CCBs are NOT covered by BMW's free maintenance? May be something to clarify with your dealer.

And I would appreciate a ref to Hoff&Hoff!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

My understanding is the CCBs are NOT covered by BMW's free maintenance? May be something to clarify with your dealer.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=65

I've read that it was only the first offer year they weren't covered but as of 2014 they're covered and this has been confirmed by BMWNA.

But I haven't seen anything official ... that said the old disclaimer that they're NOT covered is gone.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=65

I've read that it was only the first offer year they weren't covered but as of 2014 they're covered and this has been confirmed by BMWNA.

But I haven't seen anything official ... that said the old disclaimer that they're NOT covered is gone.

If that's the case, then I'd say they are definitely worth getting.

[accce]

I was told that my CCB were covered under the 4y/50mile warranty.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

If that's the case, then I'd say they are definitely worth getting.

Why does that make them worth getting? The rotors wear incredibly slowly - it is extremely unlikely you'll need new rotors during the 4/50k program.

And remember that the rotors need to be taken off and weighed to determine if they need replacement. Not measured with a micrometer.

You think BMW is going to take your rotors off and weigh them as part of the yearly inspection? Hehehe

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FTS

What an unnerving experience. Nothing you could there

Welcome to the ///M family

[thebigcheese]

What kind of car does your son have? Glad you're OK!

[FTS]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

My understanding is the CCBs are NOT covered by BMW's free maintenance? May be something to clarify with your dealer.

And I would appreciate a ref to Hoff&Hoff!

I checked the maintenance agreement, there wasn't exclusion statement, except for 'competitive' events, and DEs are not 'competitive' event

http://www.howard-hoffman.com/Site/2...80/default.asp

Ask for Willy Hoffman and mention my name "FT" to him.

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Why does that make them worth getting? The rotors wear incredibly slowly - it is extremely unlikely you'll need new rotors during the 4/50k program.

And remember that the rotors need to be taken off and weighed to determine if they need replacement. Not measured with a micrometer.

You think BMW is going to take your rotors off and weigh them as part of the yearly inspection? Hehehe

You can always weigh them yourself based on wear indicators. I highly doubt they will last 4 years, but if they do that would make them even more worthwhile IMHO, that would be nearly $7K savings for me.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What an unnerving experience. Nothing you could there

Welcome to the ///M family

Thank you very much, really looking forward to the first M car.

[KevinM]

Nice story, especially being unharmed by the crash!

BMW makes the best all-in-one cars - you will not be disappointed by your first M! No doubt the Porsche is a better track car (and I absolutely love GT3s..one day I will get one, likely a 997.2); for a stealth DD/track or occasional fun drive, the F8X is the best M car BMW has made, well, since the E39 M5 (yes I am biased after 10 years of DDing that car!).

Congratulations! MG is a wonderful color.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by unitz

What kind of car does your son have? Glad you're OK!

Thank you. We gave him our old Land Cruiser when he got his license, now we are thinking of something more economical as he will be commuting to college each day.

Originally Posted by KevinM

Nice story, especially being unharmed by the crash!

BMW makes the best all-in-one cars - you will not be disappointed by your first M! No doubt the Porsche is a better track car (and I absolutely love GT3s..one day I will get one, likely a 997.2); for a stealth DD/track or occasional fun drive, the F8X is the best M car BMW has made, well, since the E39 M5 (yes I am biased after 10 years of DD that car!).

Congratulations! MG is a wonderful color.

Thank you Kevin. E39 M5 was probably my first dream car, then the E46 M3, but things never worked out at the times for me to have one of those. I still think the E39 M5 is probably the best looking BMW ever.

[karussell]

CCB debate will go on forever. I should just copy and paste this every time.

1. they are covered under maintenance however due to their cost i am sure they won't be replaced if they wear faster than intended meaning they aren't really covered. look forward to first guy wants to do place $8K gamble on this one. they don't need to take them off to weigh them. when you wear through the friction material there are wear indicators which will be clearly visible also the surface will look grainy. also if they get chipped i doubt maintenance will cover replacement. chipped rotors need to be replaced. they chip easily.

2. NO BENEFIT ON TRACK. Steel brakes on this car are more than up to the task of being beat to death repeatedly over several days.

3. They will wear at a faster rate on track. you will go through brake pads like they are out style. compound is very soft to elongate the life of the rotor. not ideal for track. worst is if you burn the pads (heat glaze) then they are worthless before they even wear out. Changing to a more aggresive compound designed for ceramic rotors will improve brake performance greatly but will also wear down the rotors.

4. The only thing they are good for is making your wallet lighter and they look pretty if that floats your boat.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by karussell

CCB debate will go on forever. I should just copy and paste this every time.

OK Karussell, you win!

I came to trust you, I will eat my words and change my order, go for the steels; the day I over-cook my brakes or rear pistons fail, I will call you, rant for an hour and you cannot hang up on me. Deal?

[karussell]

Originally Posted by FTS

OK Karussell, you win!

I came to trust you, I will eat my words and change my order, go for the steels; the day I over-cook my brakes or rear pistons fail, I will call you, rant for an hour and you cannot hang up on me. Deal?

ha well you should know better than most here about ceramics versus steel brakes. and considering your experience with rear pistons...umm maybe you need a good luck charm or a monk to bless them

[FTS]

Hahaha, probably. I have to put aside my arrogance and admit I know nothing about the BMW world and take wise men's advice. I think 3rd gen PCCBs are different, anecdotal evidence, which is to say 'opinions', are much more positive, but these are not PCCBs.

On the positive side, I can now use 18" track wheels/tires

[Keto]

If you're looking for other savings drop the USB --it's $500 for a second mike. You can code in the rest. Bluetooth streaming with album art is standard.