04-12-2014, 07:29 PM | #23 |
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That was some awesome reading material. CCBs last as long as the car will?! Crazy, thought you had to switch them out at 30k miles. If BMW did not offer maintenance program on the stock ones then CCBs would be much more valuable
As someone else mentioned I would consider them for $4k
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04-12-2014, 07:44 PM | #24 |
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You can't put a price tag on what an option is worth to someone, new or used. It depends on the person. Just like now some people are willing to pay $8K for CCBs, some aren't.
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04-12-2014, 08:07 PM | #25 | |
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I remember talking to a ZR1 owner who has CCBs and runs slicks at the track. He said that his track costs work out to about $1000/day just looking at the tires, pads, and rotors. And that's despite the fact that GM charges quite a bit less for their CCB components compared to Porsche, Ferrari, and BMW even though the parts are essentially identical. For people going to the track, a BBK should result in much lower running costs and identical or nearly identical fade resistance compared to CCB -- or maybe even the stock system will be ok this time around. You won't get the dust-free benefit of CCBs (surprised the engineer didn't mention that), but I'll put up with dust and a bit of extra weight to avoid paying over $3K per rotor, judging by the cost of CCB rotors for the M5/6 at Turner Motorsport. That's even more scary when you consider that if you even NICK a CC rotor, such as while removing or mounting a wheel (or by kicking up debris during an off-track excursion), you have to replace it -- not too surprised the engineer didn't mention THAT. That's why a lot of Porsche guys who buy used cars with CCBs and intend to track them will often retrofit steel brakes instead. CCBs are still much more of a vanity option than a legitimate practical/performance option at this point. For road-only cars, you're paying upfront to basically never need a brake service and never have brake dust on your rims. For track cars, you're paying just to shed a few pounds of unsprung weight, because a good steel setup will get you everything else (even a good chunk of the weight savings if it uses aluminum calipers and hats) for less upfront cost, a fraction of the running costs, and none of the anxiety during wheel changes or off-track adventures.
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04-12-2014, 09:26 PM | #26 |
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04-12-2014, 09:30 PM | #27 |
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04-12-2014, 09:58 PM | #28 |
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Very informative, thanks for posting.
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04-13-2014, 12:11 AM | #30 |
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Yes. And I can personally confirm this with respect to the "standard" calipers.
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04-13-2014, 01:32 AM | #31 |
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So what's new besides fixed calipers, ability to purchase BMW sport pads and ability to get CCB?
The aluminum hub seems to have more pronounced radial vents which are seen on the f1xm cars as well |
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04-13-2014, 04:11 AM | #33 |
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What is the sensor on the fender for? Just above the surroundview camera? If it's a PDC sensor, I don't see the point as it obviously already has surroundview. On my F31 with surround view, I don't have this, so I'm a bit intrigued. Sorry for off-topic, but it caught my attention ...
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04-13-2014, 07:04 AM | #34 |
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Fixed multi-piston callipers is a first on the M3(/4). This is very welcome IMO.
Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-13-2014 at 11:24 AM.. |
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04-13-2014, 09:08 AM | #38 | |||
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So its not as expensive as people are making it out to be, and you get a higher level of performance. Its all in the interview right there. Quote:
It all comes down to how long you keep your car. Quote:
Last edited by absoluteis350; 04-13-2014 at 09:17 AM.. |
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04-13-2014, 09:26 AM | #39 | |
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At the track, CCBs definitely do not last forever. As for the breakeven point, on the F10 M5, a pair of front steel rotors costs $1002. A pair of CCB fronts costs $6346. And as someone who's talked with multiple people who track using CCBs on several different types of cars, let me tell you that CCBs don't last anywhere near 6x as long as steel -- usually they don't even last twice as long. Sorry, there's just no way to construe CCBs as a good value proposition. If you stay on the road, you've already prepaid for so many brake jobs by getting CCB that you're unlikely to break even in the car's lifetime. And on a track car CCB's don't meaningfully outlive their steel counterparts despite costing a whole lot more, so you're actually behind on value in that setting -- and that's assuming you don't ever prematurely destroy a rotor by nicking it with off-track debris or during a wheel change.
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04-13-2014, 09:33 AM | #40 | |
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That the CCB with track use will not last the life of the car and will result in a higher overall expense. However, CCB with street use will last the life of the car. Steel rotors with performance pads with street use will approach the cost of CCB over the course of their life, assuming 6years+ (whether someone would use performance pads for street use is a different story). Steel rotors and regular pads will, over 6 years, defray some of the cost of the CCB expenditure. Again, we can argue about how much of that cost is defrayed, but it is a fact. Again, how many M5/6 CCB users have had this happen? None that I know of. While a fact, it's also a fact that people die on the highway from incidents that aren't their fault, yet this highly unlikely occurrence is not enough to make me cower at home under my mattress my entire life. Same with the theoretical chip off the CCB rotors. |
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04-13-2014, 09:41 AM | #41 | |
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Using M5/6 prices again, if we assume that steel rotors last 50K under street-only driving (not unreasonable, and the rears probably last longer) and that replacing all four steel rotors would cost $2K (probably costs less since rears are smaller), then in order to break even on the $8K CCB option, you'd need to drive the car 250K miles (original factory set plus paying for four new sets of rotors). If the CCB rotors last THAT long (pretty unlikely), then yes I suppose if you will drive your car 250K miles, you can finally say that you broke even. But you'd be waiting a lot longer than 6 years. As for the rotor chipping, I expect few have had that happen because few M5/6 owners go to the track. But on an M3 where lots of people who track them also have a dedicated set of wheels and tires for the track, it becomes much more likely. But that's also moot because as I just said, the value proposition just isn't there even if that never happens to the owner.
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04-13-2014, 09:57 AM | #42 | |
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A track compound will wear your rotors down faster, no one is arguing that. But the deposits left by the track compound can be removed with a normal bedding procedure. Again, just like everyone does now after changing pads out after the track. These pads are not some new, special technology. Unless you're tracking your car almost every other weekend, there is no way a sane person can argue that the CCBs are a cost saving purchase. |
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04-13-2014, 10:00 AM | #43 | |
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My point is simply that its not an $8k investment over time, its less than that, potentially lots less than that. Maybe its only a $4k investment plus saved time from going to a shop/dealer for each brake job (rotors not pads). Anyway, its not as simple as a flat $8k. For added benefits already mentioned in the article (plus no dust). Again, valued differently for different people. I don't think anyone is saying CCB is cheaper. |
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04-13-2014, 10:01 AM | #44 | |
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