Car and Driver F8x article

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by Ezio

People want both !

no issues there. I do agree. But we cant knock on the car till we actually hear it in person. I would rather have more power. The sound can always be changed with a downpipe or exhaust. some many people have there panties tied up over the V8 S65. Its a great car but lack many things that the F8X makes up for. Its a shame for a V8 engine to have less then 300lbs of torque.

[soberin]

The new M3/4 will be better in every way, except possibly one, and that's the steering. IF the new EPS sucks as I expect, all the torque doesn't mean a thing to me.

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by soberin

The new M3/4 will be better in every way, except possibly one, and that's the steering. IF the new EPS sucks as I expect, all the torque doesn't mean a thing to me.

Why do you say that you expect the EPS to suck? I know that Bruno Spengler drives for BMW, but he had a romp in the new M3 with a journalist and he is quoted saying it is one of the best steering cars he has driven. I know, I know.......but he isn't an "enthusiast" and he hasn't been contributing a million posts bashing everything about the car, so who is he, right? I just don't see how everyone can be so sure about something that is completely new and hasn't been reviewed yet.

[Sir Loin]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Seems the most upset folks are either those that aren't in the market for a M3/M4 right now and most of those seem to have purchased/leased a M3 pretty recently (i.e., those with a 2011-2013).

If I just bought a car and a newer model is coming out that is better in just about every way than my car, maybe I'd feel the need to bash it and grasp on to something to make me feel better about my purchase.

The car isn't even out yet and some are killing it. The only argument I get are subjective ones like looks and to a lesser degree sound. But come on, comfort and performance while having better tech and gas mileage will go to the newer model.

Argue that BMW doesn't have the best car in the segment for the price may be valid when we can actually compare it to something but saying the old car is 'better' seems silly. Does anyone really think the outgoing model will be objectively better? You can say I like older M3s looks, or the V8 sounds better than the turbo 6, but that's grasping dont you think?

tdizzle, you said exactly what I have been wanting to say. And you did it more elegantly.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by Carl L

This Ezio kid is making this forum unreadable. If you love your 2013 so much go to the E92 forum. Your harping on about "back in the day" is utter tripe given that you're 16. Just grow up and give everyone a rest from your buyer's remorse.

No kidding, he is so upset about his '13 that he needs to justify it in every thread here.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by UAM951

no issues there. I do agree. But we cant knock on the car till we actually hear it in person. I would rather have more power. The sound can always be changed with a downpipe or exhaust. some many people have there panties tied up over the V8 S65. Its a great car but lack many things that the F8X makes up for. Its a shame for a V8 engine to have less then 300lbs of torque.

You know as good as S65 is in terms of sound it really isn't that good of a V8 in a grand scheme of things.

It's pretty heavy, it produces an average amount of power, low torque, poor gas mileage. I would almost prefer Coyote 5.0 + Boss302 intake or better yet LS3 stuffed in E9X chassis.

And before you get out of shape I get the intent of S65 being high reving in nature and all that stuff.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Ezio

but thats what made the M3 so great. it was a balls to the wall engine. the high revs, the poor gas mileage, the sound. were all things that i liked about the engine. i know that might sound weird to you. guess some people will just never understand . i actually liked the idea the car had a gas tax on it. haha. i felt i was getting a engine that wasn't made for the streets.

Originally Posted by Ezio

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=754540

give it a read. BMW was just different back in those days. it was all about the racing. very exciting time

Times change. And back in those "exciting days" BMW was making a mess out of it's Formula 1 effort with mismanagement of the Sauber team and not winning anything...

Today BMW is back in the DTM and winning (BMW made it a prerequisite of their return that DTM would move away from the current V8 engines used in DTM).

They just introduced the M235i Racing, and currently offer 6 different race cars. How many racing programmes and cars did BMW offer in 2007-2008?

http://www.bmw-motorsport.com/en/cars/bmw-m235ir.html

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Carl L

This Ezio kid is making this forum unreadable. If you love your 2013 so much go to the E92 forum. Your harping on about "back in the day" is utter tripe given that you're 16. Just grow up and give everyone a rest from your buyer's remorse.

+1

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by Carl L

This Ezio kid is making this forum unreadable. If you love your 2013 so much go to the E92 forum. Your harping on about "back in the day" is utter tripe given that you're 16. Just grow up and give everyone a rest from your buyer's remorse.

+2

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Seems the most upset folks are either those that aren't in the market for a M3/M4 right now and most of those seem to have purchased/leased a M3 pretty recently (i.e., those with a 2011-2013).

If I just bought a car and a newer model is coming out that is better in just about every way than my car, maybe I'd feel the need to bash it and grasp on to something to make me feel better about my purchase.

The car isn't even out yet and some are killing it. The only argument I get are subjective ones like looks and to a lesser degree sound. But come on, comfort and performance while having better tech and gas mileage will go to the newer model.

Argue that BMW doesn't have the best car in the segment for the price may be valid when we can actually compare it to something but saying the old car is 'better' seems silly. Does anyone really think the outgoing model will be objectively better? You can say I like older M3s looks, or the V8 sounds better than the turbo 6, but that's grasping dont you think?

Even if i wanted a M4, i wouldn't want the first year. because of pricing and no reviews are not. So me doing a 3 year lease on a M3 now made a lot of sense. its up in 2 years. i am getting another car in that time. So its not like i will have this E92 for like 5 years or something. on top of that most likely switching to a different brand. So really i am not that "upset" plus i would be surprised if i see a M4 on the road this year. i don't live in cally where M cars are every where.... on top of all of that. the cars i am interested in ( Zo6, benz AMG Etc. are not even out yet)

I am upset with BMW M. Because they gave us these pretty cool engines (s65, S85) that attracted people like me. who want more of radical engines. loud, high revving, gas is zero problem etc... i loved how i could get a engine like that for a affordable price. (not THAT hard to lease a M3 if you make a decent amount of money). i would love to grab a M4 in 2 years, but they are making it hard for people like me. which probably is a small percent of people.

i have been saying this for some time now. what makes a good forum is when you have people who share different view points. it makes room for discussion. when i see new threads pop up, i post a view point to someone i have never quoted before.

[JC135]

Originally Posted by Chill72

You know as good as S65 is in terms of sound it really isn't that good of a V8 in a grand scheme of things.

It's pretty heavy, it produces an average amount of power, low torque, poor gas mileage. I would almost prefer Coyote 5.0 + Boss302 intake or better yet LS3 stuffed in E9X chassis.

And before you get out of shape I get the intent of S65 being high reving in nature and all that stuff.

This. The V8 was a cool idea and it'd be nice if BMW improved upon the engine this go around but whatever; apparently there are other priorities that come first for BMW which is understandable.

I like the fact that this go around the engine has proper torque amongst all the other benefits. I think the car should prove to be well sorted and very good.

It does suck for all of the people who bought recent M3s considering this new one is improved in many areas.

[ixse]

Originally Posted by Carl L

This Ezio kid is making this forum unreadable. If you love your 2013 so much go to the E92 forum. Your harping on about "back in the day" is utter tripe given that you're 16. Just grow up and give everyone a rest from your buyer's remorse.

+3

[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by soberin

The new M3/4 will be better in every way, except possibly one, and that's the steering. IF the new EPS sucks as I expect, all the torque doesn't mean a thing to me.

Have you watched the track videos from BMW on the new M3/M4? How can you possibly say that sounds better than the E92 V8?

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by JC135

It does suck for all of the people who bought recent M3s considering this new one is improved in many areas.

You know, I wouldn't go that far. Sure there are some (very few) people who got '13s and simply didn't know new model is coming. There are those who got a 13 because they love the package and last V8 thing. Also there are those who got good deals on the last model year and they jumped on them.

I have no problem with any of those listed above. What is tiresome is a guy constantly trying shove S65 down my throat when we're here trying to talk about the new M3/4.

Don't tell me about S65, I've had one for four years, time to move on to the new beast.

[///M ARMY]

Originally Posted by Chill72

You know as good as S65 is in terms of sound it really isn't that good of a V8 in a grand scheme of things.

It's pretty heavy, it produces an average amount of power, low torque, poor gas mileage. I would almost prefer Coyote 5.0 + Boss302 intake or better yet LS3 stuffed in E9X chassis.

And before you get out of shape I get the intent of S65 being high reving in nature and all that stuff.

no its understood but every other thread someone always complaining about the engine and its high revving. Sounds like a damn soap opera. I had my share in the S65. There is always going to be new and better.

[JC135]

Originally Posted by Chill72

You know, I wouldn't go that far. Sure there are some (very few) people who got '13s and simply didn't know new model is coming. There are those who got a 13 because they love the package and last V8 thing. Also there are those who got good deals on the last model year and they jumped on them.

I have no problem with any of those listed above. What is tiresome is a guy constantly trying shove S65 down my throat when we're here trying to talk about the new M3/4.

Don't tell me about S65, I've had one for four years, time to move on to the new beast.

My post was more of empathy but yeah I can see how it would be interpreted in a way that would merit your response. I agree that getting a '13 or slightly earlier M3 for a good deal wouldn't be anything to regret really, at least IMHO.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by E36toF30

Have you watched the track videos from BMW on the new M3/M4? How can you possibly say that sounds better than the E92 V8?

Frankly, the E9X's stock exhaust sound is not beloved by all. I think this version will need an aftermarket exhaust, like it. Would be nice if BMW would offer a Sport exhaust option.

[s4play]

As a BMW M3 owner and fan for many years, all I can say it's exciting to see the manufactuer change things up a bit. Just think if all we got was one kind of car with the same motor (aka Corvette) wouldn't that be boring? haha

I loved my e90 M3 v8 while it lasted but honestly it's not my favorite M3 ~ the one I miss dearly is my black e46 m3 with the inline 6. It was a great blend of power, looks and useability as a DD. The V8 m3 motor has virtually no torque and the dismal MPG makes it hard to love. Granted the arguement could be performance cars should not worry about it but fact is there are cars producing much more hp using less gas (aka Corvette again).

I already placed my order for the new M3 in hopes it will be what I want. Rarely do I buy new cars these days but hoping this M3 will be just like my last e46 m3 - a KEEPER!

[jml]

Originally Posted by Ezio

but thats what made the M3 so great. it was a balls to the wall engine. the high revs, the poor gas mileage, the sound. were all things that i liked about the engine. i know that might sound weird to you. guess some people will just never understand . i actually liked the idea the car had a gas tax on it. haha. i felt i was getting a engine that wasn't made for the streets.

+1 My 3.8Rs gets even worse gas mileage than my e90...both cars leave little to be desired.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

Why do you say that you expect the EPS to suck? I know that Bruno Spengler drives for BMW, but he had a romp in the new M3 with a journalist and he is quoted saying it is one of the best steering cars he has driven. I know, I know.......but he isn't an "enthusiast" and he hasn't been contributing a million posts bashing everything about the car, so who is he, right? I just don't see how everyone can be so sure about something that is completely new and hasn't been reviewed yet.

I noted during that video that the first two things he mentioned:

1. Steering feel
2. Lack of turbo lag.

These were the two biggest bugaboos that people feared about the changes in the F80. He immediately began speaking about them, out of nowhere, without any real context. Coincidence?

No way.

[nonagon]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I noted during that video that the first two things he mentioned:

1. Steering feel
2. Lack of turbo lag.

These were the two biggest bugaboos that people feared about the changes in the F80. He immediately began speaking about them, out of nowhere, without any real context. Coincidence?

No way.

It's a conspiracy!

[Mthrice]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I noted during that video that the first two things he mentioned:

1. Steering feel
2. Lack of turbo lag.

These were the two biggest bugaboos that people feared about the changes in the F80. He immediately began speaking about them, out of nowhere, without any real context. Coincidence?

No way.

You nailed it! The guy works for BMW what is he gonna say, the steering is totally numb. That's been the complaint of every new BMW since the F10 M5. I expect the auto rags will let us know about the numb steering soon enough. Hopefully, the increased torque and lighter weight is enough to overcome it.