Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

I'll patiently wait on mine, 1) do the crank hub 2) tune it 3) grab bigger tires/wheels for grip, 5) maybe tweak the suspension with camber plates and HAS and 4) enjoy it. This is my fun car; my real daily another car and we have another SUV for kid duties.

I got my F8x before this silly run up in prices, but will say this: I won't be surprised if the F8x won't really drop in prices much. It just looks so sculpted and together with its tunability, makes it desirable. I took the family out today for a spin. The in car stuff is a little outdated but its still good enough (unlike the 911.1).

Yes a new P car would be nice, but just like the M3, there aren't a lot of places to really enjoy it. The gearing and hp in all these new performance cars are so tall (esp with turbo engines), there's not a lot of place to really stretch the legs without getting into trouble.

For e.g. our cars:

DCT @ 7600rpm
1st = 35mph
2nd = 65mph
3rd = 99mph
4th = 132mph
5th=168mph
6th=199mph

It's even worse with cars like the Cayman GT4, 1st gear gets you to 52mph.
You'd probably just be able to use 1st and 2nd at the top of the rpm before you're breaking the speed limits around here.

What we all have here is time. No rush, but I'm done making excuses for BMW's M cars. At this point, I'd rather get a RS5 than get a new M car.

Yup exactly my thinking, I bought the F8X with the desire to keep it for a long time and having a car that's bought and paid for with no obligations outside of registration and insurance fees is worth a lot to me mentally. If I can, I'd love to hand it down to my (eventual) kid one day, teach him/her how we used to burn Dinosaur bones to drive a crazy complex web of gears. That is... if all the friggin plastic in the engine bay survives that long... I swear every time I'm in there I just so much as look at a clip and it cracks

I hear you on cars being too powerful, hence why I'm thinking slightly older cars not just because of NA engines but really the output is much more reasonable. It would be nice if manufacturers started giving you an option to turn down the power (could be a multi key system that controls boost or a variable restrictor plate system). I'm sure a 718 GTS that you could reduce output by say 33% would probably make an amazing road car.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

I think I’m in a similar place as you. In fact I’m so disassociated from it I truly didn’t even give thought there would be one on the showroom floor, I was actually looking forward to introducing the wife to the x3m. It will be replacing her current x5, just need to find her the right one and convince her to spend the money. She is, let’s say, very frugal.

If X3M could do something close to regular G-Chassis comfort level in comfort mode, it would probably be perfect. Not going to lie, I drove home yesterday with a half migraine and would be lying if I said I wasn't thinking a lot about how comfortable the G-Chassis cars are in that moment! Lowered F8X chassis can definitely be a sensory overload in that situation

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

I'll patiently wait on mine, 1) do the crank hub 2) tune it 3) grab bigger tires/wheels for grip, 5) maybe tweak the suspension with camber plates and HAS and 4) enjoy it. This is my fun car; my real daily another car and we have another SUV for kid duties.

I got my F8x before this silly run up in prices, but will say this: I won't be surprised if the F8x won't really drop in prices much. It just looks so sculpted and together with its tunability, makes it desirable. I took the family out today for a spin. The in car stuff is a little outdated but its still good enough (unlike the 911.1).

Yes a new P car would be nice, but just like the M3, there aren't a lot of places to really enjoy it. The gearing and hp in all these new performance cars are so tall (esp with turbo engines), there's not a lot of place to really stretch the legs without getting into trouble.

For e.g. our cars:

DCT @ 7600rpm
1st = 35mph
2nd = 65mph
3rd = 99mph
4th = 132mph
5th=168mph
6th=199mph

It's even worse with cars like the Cayman GT4, 1st gear gets you to 52mph.
You'd probably just be able to use 1st and 2nd at the top of the rpm before you're breaking the speed limits around here.

What we all have here is time. No rush, but I'm done making excuses for BMW's M cars. At this point, I'd rather get a RS5 than get a new M car.

Personally, especially after driving the GT4 and being in the GT3RS (991.2). I am not bothered by the tall gearing.

You have to keep in mind two things. For one, driving around town and needing to constantly shift gears gets pretty old in a manual. Not needing to constantly shift gears is actually a blessing in disguise you will come to appreciate. Obviously if you have the PDK-S then you don't have to worry about it regardless. Being in a manual, you can shift on your own, there is little need to constantly shift at redline anyway. PDK-S will optimize when to shift depending on your speed and style of driving (once it learns) so it will keep the RPM as high as possible to be at it's best.

And as noted by Minn in our ssot place, there are other cars like the GT350, ZL1 1LE (he has owned both if I recall correctly) that also have tall gearing but people seem to ignore that fact. However chooses to constantly nitpick the issue on the GT4 and making it the "biggest" thing.

This isn't pointing fingers at anyone by the way, it's just something I have started to notice. I am not bothered by it. These cars are built for track, which is the reason why their gearing is taller than usual. It's optimized for it. AP mentioned that they couldn't re-do the gearing for the GT4/Spyder for technical reasons (and monetary reasons) and was forced to keep it.

[Humdizzle]

was cruising in the gt3 today and swung by the bmw dealer to see if they had a G80 as i hadn't seen one yet. they had a sao paulo yellow 6 speed inside. pretty base spec it only had the exec pack. msrp was high 70s.

initial impressions --
the grill is not AS bad in person, but still bad. the overall design was poor. the car is too over-styled in my opinion: too many things going on. the rear doors are so short compared to the front. the diffuser fins are on the back of the rear bumper instead of being underneath the car. they replaced the vents on the rear bumper (behind the rear wheels) with the reflectors. side vents on the front fender are fake now too. The f80 is a bit over-styled too, and i realize the f80 diffuser probably doesn't do anything either... but this is too much now.

inside --
it was a 6 speed. the shifter feels the same as my f80, typical bmw. some youtube reviews talked about how good the manual is in the g80, but i think they've just forgotten about or never drove the f80 manual. the clutch travel is definitely shorter than the f80, by at least by a few inches. i didn't get much feel coming through it.

rest of the interior is pretty standard. i didn't notice much improvement. this one didn't have the carbon seats though. GF said the same thing... aside from some repositioning of buttons and vents she didn't see much of a difference.

they asked if i wanted to test drive but i passed. i just dont see it as being something i'd want to own and look at regardless of performance.

[CT_M3]

Good points. I was not nitpicking really, but rather making a point that in daily use, I won’t really see much upside going to a GT4/GT3RS etc., unless I have specific use cases. All these cars are fantastic, people who make the gearing the issue are being silly. Tall gearing helps for fuel economy and off the line engagement.

It isn’t the daily running around you get these cars for. All systems of these cars are competent enough for the jaunt around town. We get these cars to be able to occasionally push them to 7-9/10s to their performance envelope. My opinion is that the way these cars are (M3/4, GT3RS, GT4, Turbo, etc), unless you go to the track often or have a really long canyon run with no cops, it’s kinda like driving a caged tiger around town. Yes, its awesome, but you can’t really explore or enjoy the car the way it was mean to be driven. So given that, yes, these are all awesome machines, but there’s no actual pressing urgency to press the ‘buy’ button post haste. If you track often, then it makes more of a case

That’s why, as much as we malign folks who look @ 0-60, they focus on this and do street races I suspect.

I make it a point to do canyon drive every weekend. It can be an exercise in frustration because no matter how early I go, I still get stuck behind someone at some point. And there are cops sometimes lurking around corners. Oh well, that’s just the way it is.

Originally Posted by Arcades

Personally, especially after driving the GT4 and being in the GT3RS (991.2). I am not bothered by the tall gearing.

You have to keep in mind two things. For one, driving around town and needing to constantly shift gears gets pretty old in a manual. Not needing to constantly shift gears is actually a blessing in disguise you will come to appreciate. Obviously if you have the PDK-S then you don't have to worry about it regardless. Being in a manual, you can shift on your own, there is little need to constantly shift at redline anyway. PDK-S will optimize when to shift depending on your speed and style of driving (once it learns) so it will keep the RPM as high as possible to be at it's best.

And as noted by Minn in our ssot place, there are other cars like the GT350, ZL1 1LE (he has owned both if I recall correctly) that also have tall gearing but people seem to ignore that fact. However chooses to constantly nitpick the issue on the GT4 and making it the "biggest" thing.

This isn't pointing fingers at anyone by the way, it's just something I have started to notice. I am not bothered by it. These cars are built for track, which is the reason why their gearing is taller than usual. It's optimized for it. AP mentioned that they couldn't re-do the gearing for the GT4/Spyder for technical reasons (and monetary reasons) and was forced to keep it.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Good points. I was not nitpicking really, but rather making a point that in daily use, I won't really see much upside going to a GT4/GT3RS etc., unless I have specific use cases. All these cars are fantastic, people who make the gearing the issue are being silly. Tall gearing helps for fuel economy and off the line engagement.

It isn't the daily running around you get these cars for. All systems of these cars are competent enough for the jaunt around town. We get these cars to be able to occasionally push them to 7-9/10s to their performance envelope. My opinion is that the way these cars are (M3/4, GT3RS, GT4, Turbo, etc), unless you go to the track often or have a really long canyon run with no cops, it's kinda like driving a caged tiger around town. Yes, its awesome, but you can't really explore or enjoy the car the way it was mean to be driven. So given that, yes, these are all awesome machines, but there's no actual pressing urgency to press the 'buy' button post haste. If you track often, then it makes more of a case

That's why, as much as we malign folks who look @ 0-60, they focus on this and do street races I suspect.

I make it a point to do canyon drive every weekend. It can be an exercise in frustration because no matter how early I go, I still get stuck behind someone at some point. And there are cops sometimes lurking around corners. Oh well, that's just the way it is.

The thing is that in my scenario speeding is seen as a criminal offense and you're not going to go more than 20mph over to risk them taking your license away for ~6 months and a hefty fine, which is why I don't care for 0-60 as by the time I've pushed it for 5 seconds I'll be at the limit. And if I cared for 0-60 I'd just get an electric because they're faster and a lot cheaper 😂
Of course they have no theatrics which sucks 😖

However there are a lot of high limit sharp turn canyons and police don't patrol them as they have no place to set traps and this car feels so at home with it.
I go with a friend or two, them having the RS' and my god is it fun. You can feel the car just loves it, and at summer times I travel toward the autobahn for a blast to truly open up and I passed the 300kmh limit last summer with my F82 during Rona, go to the Ring and have a week or something just enjoying it.

You don't need 500-600hp for most use scenarios but it's nice to know it's there if you'd need it which is why I'd rather get big turbos than buy a G...
And the fuel efficiency in eco (never use it lol) is pretty good all things considered. Kinda feels like it turns off 2 cylinders in that mode tho.

I lean more towards twisty roads and tracks so top speed and whatnot isn't really something I need and I think a GTS tune or stage 1 is more than I'll ever need really, for anything, as the only place to use it would be in Germany or on the quarter mile which meh is not my thing.

Locally they sold their first M4 so I had to check it out and it doesn't look good at all, I still feel bad knowing this is supposed to be the new M car, when it's so far from form.

I've been looking at Porsches in the lower price class as an alternative to the M4 but I don't find them as fun as the F82 and the G82 gave me no enjoyment. It's rather dull but it's fairly quick.

As people have said above, I'd rather get the X3M 😂
It's beautiful, for a SUV

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

If X3M could do something close to regular G-Chassis comfort level in comfort mode, it would probably be perfect. Not going to lie, I drove home yesterday with a half migraine and would be lying if I said I wasn't thinking a lot about how comfortable the G-Chassis cars are in that moment! Lowered F8X chassis can definitely be a sensory overload in that situation

Wife and I almost pulled the trigger on the X3M when we thought about replacing her totaled M2 with a do it all vehicle. My salesman gave us an overnight test drive of a used unit for sale. Probably the worst mistake on his part. We hauled the dog to the groomers in the back and he got sick from how rough the ride was. It definitely needs a more comfortable comfort mode in my opinion, especially since we also have grandchildren in the rear. That killed any intention of purchasing the car. In the end we decided it was probably best to keep an SUV soft and boring and spend the extra money on a fun car. Other than the ride though car drives great, a bit too much lag down low, but handling is impressive for its size, weight and height.

[FormulaMMM]

Put eyes on one of these over the weekend at Sebring. Manual on display.

I thought it looked really purposeful and awesome. Any performance sedan with a shifter and Cup 2's has my attn. Comparison test with a base G80 would be very interesting -- hope Motor Trend and Pobst make it happen.

[swagon]

It's not exactly a looker either, to be fair.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

was cruising in the gt3 today and swung by the bmw dealer to see if they had a G80 as i hadn't seen one yet. they had a sao paulo yellow 6 speed inside. pretty base spec it only had the exec pack. msrp was high 70s.

initial impressions --
the grill is not AS bad in person, but still bad. the overall design was poor. the car is too over-styled in my opinion: too many things going on. the rear doors are so short compared to the front. the diffuser fins are on the back of the rear bumper instead of being underneath the car. they replaced the vents on the rear bumper (behind the rear wheels) with the reflectors. side vents on the front fender are fake now too. The f80 is a bit over-styled too, and i realize the f80 diffuser probably doesn't do anything either... but this is too much now.

inside --
it was a 6 speed. the shifter feels the same as my f80, typical bmw. some youtube reviews talked about how good the manual is in the g80, but i think they've just forgotten about or never drove the f80 manual. the clutch travel is definitely shorter than the f80, by at least by a few inches. i didn't get much feel coming through it.

rest of the interior is pretty standard. i didn't notice much improvement. this one didn't have the carbon seats though. GF said the same thing... aside from some repositioning of buttons and vents she didn't see much of a difference.

they asked if i wanted to test drive but i passed. i just dont see it as being something i'd want to own and look at regardless of performance.

I thought the same thing on the SPY M4 I saw IRL as noted above...the grill is the least of its problems...shame for such a cool color. Hopefully Porsche will have their equivalent color soon. I was wondering about the 6MT and figured it was as you said, so thanks for that input. You're probably right in that the reviewers haven't driven a BMW stick in a while. From my e46 until now with the M2C, certainly from the E82 & E92 I had and on, the transmission feel has been almost identical across all of them. I figured the new car would be similar.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by swagon

It's not exactly a looker either, to be fair.

Much better in person. Couldn't hold a candle to modded E9X and F8X in attendance, but better looking than the G80. Did not care for the back from straight on but all other angles just fine.

Overall looked like a car with performance to back up what Cadillac was suggesting in the press release. A legit engineering effort.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Much better in person. Couldn't hold a candle to modded E9X and F8X in attendance, but better looking than the G80. Did not care for the back from straight on but all other angles just fine.

Overall looked like a car with performance to back up what Cadillac was suggesting in the press release. A legit engineering effort.

[IMG]https://di-sitebuilder-assets.s3.ama...ero-red-lg.jpg[/IMG]

Agree. I saw a regular CT4-V all blacked out and its a nice looking car in person. Stands out a bit since you don't see them on every corner. Also been seeing more and more CT5's as of late, also nice looking cars. They definitely aren't beautiful like the E46,90,F80, etc. But I wouldn't be disgusted or disappointed every time I get out of my car like with the G80.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

But I wouldn't be disgusted or disappointed every time I get out of my car like with the G80.

Exactly. Since M have yielded the high ground on aesthetics, not sure why you wouldn't consider thoroughly engineered and tested performance alternatives. Hope to see that comparison with a manual G80.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Put eyes on one of these over the weekend at Sebring. Manual on display.

I thought it looked really purposeful and awesome. Any performance sedan with a shifter and Cup 2's has my attn. Comparison test with a base G80 would be very interesting -- hope Motor Trend and Pobst make it happen.

I'm not feeling the design, but I'm curious how it'll perform.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'm not feeling the design, but I'm curious how it'll perform.

Sounds like limited, order-based production, so probably few chances to see in the flesh. Too bad, think it would change some opinions in person.

Since a lot of manufacturers are promoting track readiness, including Cadillac with the Blackwing and BMW with the G8X (M Drive Professional), reviews should begin involving both hot lap times and 20 minute session testing. I'd be interested in that comparison feedback.

Note on the Blackwing site: INITIAL V-SERIES BLACKWING RESERVATIONS ARE FULL

Good for them.

[CT_M3]

Caddy has a public perception problem. Even if the driving dynamics are superior to anything BMW, Alpha etch put out, they struggle to gain traction in sales volume. See the prior ATS-V, CTS-V and the secondary market reflects it. I would love to be proven wrong as I think they make good performance sedans.

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Agree. I saw a regular CT4-V all blacked out and its a nice looking car in person. Stands out a bit since you don't see them on every corner. Also been seeing more and more CT5's as of late, also nice looking cars. They definitely aren't beautiful like the E46,90,F80, etc. But I wouldn't be disgusted or disappointed every time I get out of my car like with the G80.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Caddy has a public perception problem. Even if the driving dynamics are superior to anything BMW, Alpha etch put out, they struggle to gain traction in sales volume. See the prior ATS-V, CTS-V and the secondary market reflects it. I would love to be proven wrong as I think they make good performance sedans.

Agreed. It has been this way since the very first CTS-V came out to battle the E46 M3. They won't be able to shake the perception enough to really compete for sales. They aren't even on the map.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by CT_M3

Caddy has a public perception problem. Even if the driving dynamics are superior to anything BMW, Alpha etch put out, they struggle to gain traction in sales volume. See the prior ATS-V, CTS-V and the secondary market reflects it. I would love to be proven wrong as I think they make good performance sedans.

Think they planned the Blackwing with that niche/limited audience awareness and still made it an all out effort. Initial production run is sold out.

But agreed they still have a wider public perception problem. Something the M3 has never struggled with, until now.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Think they planned the Blackwing with that niche/limited audience awareness and still made it an all out effort. Initial production run is sold out.

But agreed they still have a wider public perception problem. Something the M3 has never struggled with, until now.

Presumably. We'll have that answer in 4 years.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Agreed. It has been this way since the very first CTS-V came out to battle the E46 M3. They won't be able to shake the perception enough to really compete for sales. They aren't even on the map.

Well, remember Caddy has an interesting strategy of pricing their items at the same price as infinitely more established rivals. That's a smart strategy to penetrate a market, price your newcomer like the established cars. Maybe also make it limited edition, so your customers can now pay a 20k 'market adjustment' because the cars are so rare.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Well, remember Caddy has an interesting strategy of pricing their items at the same price as infinitely more established rivals. That's a smart strategy to penetrate a market, price your newcomer like the established cars. Maybe also make it limited edition, so your customers can now pay a 20k 'market adjustment' because the cars are so rare.

....their strategy needs work.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Presumably. We'll have that answer in 4 years.

Agreed. It may be just a little premature to say the G8X is a sales failure. Maybe just a little.