06-25-2018, 02:44 PM | #45 | ||
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06-25-2018, 02:46 PM | #46 | |
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06-25-2018, 02:50 PM | #47 |
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Not worth the risk in my opinion ... I'm sorry but there is no way any one can be faster at reacting and saving your skin than the electronics built in the car that can react in nano seconds .... it just takes a split second of misjudgment before things can go very wrong ... it's one thing to put yourself and your family at risk but it is very selfish to put other families at risk...
Even professional drivers have messed up on a basic pace lap ...
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06-25-2018, 02:52 PM | #48 | |
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From my observations with my M4 and from what I have read about DSC systems in general, the DSC system will cut power in anticipation of loss of traction. Wheels are always slipping slightly, even when travelling at constant speed. The DSC system monitors the amount slip differential between the different wheels and will cut power if it feels the speed differential is getting too large or is increasing too rapidly, even if there is no loss of traction per say. As an example, MDM would always cut power when hitting the crest in the back straight at my local track. However, running in the exact same conditions with DSC off, there is zero drama, no wheel spin, no loss of traction, just a faster top speed at the end of the back straight. The same can be observed during WOT redline upshifts in S3 and Sport+, with MDM there is always a lag on upshift while with DSC off, again no drama, just a sharp punchy upshift. Hence my conclusion the the DSC system on F8X will make interventions BEFORE a loss of traction has actually occurred. I get that it does that with full DSC for safety, but I find it disappointing that it also does so in MDM.
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06-25-2018, 02:53 PM | #49 |
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Exactly, see post above.
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06-25-2018, 02:54 PM | #50 | |
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06-25-2018, 02:56 PM | #51 |
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I think I know who you are referring to. He is not a professional driver. Pretty rookie mistake IMO .
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06-25-2018, 03:22 PM | #52 | |
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Once i got PS4S 14 months ago I found the car, even with a stage 1 hex tune, could handle the power. I keep the DSC off from May to October. HOWEVER, i do not have it programmed into my M1/M2 buttons. I have to manually hold down the button. It makes me aware of it. Obviously, if my wife or newborn is in the car, it stays on fully nannie mode.
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06-25-2018, 03:26 PM | #53 |
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hi OP, I used to daily drive in (euro) MDM mode, but then I had 1 morning where for a variety of reasons (a bit colder outside, a bit less attentiveness from me etc) instead of a "fast take off from a slow right turn" it ended up with "drifting around the right turn with the back of my car in the lane next to me"
While it felt BOSS to execute that maneuver, it made me realize there were many ways this could have ended up in a bad situation (e.g. if there was a car one lane over, if I lossed it and looped the car into the curb/parked cars, etc etc) so personally use all the electronic assists when commuting and only turn them off at the track It's nice to have a safety margin on the streets. Good luck and don't be the person who ends up on youtube during their morning commute EDIT: I also tried to launch control and ended up with a mini tank slapper and a smoke show.. that also helped me decide to keep DSC ON |
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06-25-2018, 03:33 PM | #54 | |
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06-25-2018, 03:37 PM | #55 | |
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06-25-2018, 03:39 PM | #56 |
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I vote for letting the OP be a 52 year old full grown man and vote for letting him drive it how he wants. I mean, how did we ever survive back in the 60's and 70's when muscle cars and sports cars had just a much power as our beloved M4, yet they were rolling around on skinny old technology tires? Yes a bunch of those old cars were crashed, but there's plenty of new M4's that have been wrecked too (most of which probably had DSC on)
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06-25-2018, 03:43 PM | #57 | |
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Yes that's a ridiculous analogy, just as ridiculous as it is to claim driving around without DSC on is endangering others. To answer your question how we survived, we didn't have iDumbass gadgets, infotainment centers, and all the other crap to distract us. We also didn't have the false sense of confidence which some seem to have by enabling DSC. ;P |
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06-25-2018, 04:18 PM | #59 |
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Think of a scenario like this - you're on the freeway, DSC off, cruising at 75 mph. A car two lanes over suddenly swerves towards you for whatever reason. If your DSC is off and you decide to swerve instead of brake (to avoid the collision), the chance of spinning out is higher than if your DSC was on. To each his own. Just don't total your car and make my insurance company increase premiums next year, thanks.
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06-25-2018, 04:32 PM | #60 | |
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Back to the point of driving with DSC off all the time. Unless its a weekend car and you're concentrating 100%, it seems very tiring to have your guard up all the time. There are clearly some added risks. If you want the occasionally wheel slip, just simply turn it off for that particular moment. The only cons I can really think of is building some bad car control habits with DSC/MDM on. I think Euro MDM is more than enough "safe" slip on public roads. A bit too intrusive on the track. |
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06-25-2018, 04:37 PM | #61 | ||
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06-25-2018, 04:38 PM | #62 |
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I get both sides of the argument, and I support OP for being aware of his driving abilities.
Just think of how many times you've witnessed a pre-1995 RWD vehicle with no TCS/ECS technology crash during regular driving, particularly in dry conditions. How about high horsepower muscle car classics with solid rear axles? I don't think any of those guys are getting their panties wet just because their 1000+ HP classic car doesn't have traction control. I don't buy that your parents or grandparents were better skilled drivers than today's generation considering that none of the cars back in the day had traction control as an option. And the roads were definitely not as smoothly paved as they are now. Rubber construct on tires have also improved considerably. Accidents are often unexpected, and they happen with or without DSC enabled. So if you're completely comfortable with the car's handling characteristics, like OP clearly is, why not enjoy the car a little bit more by driving with nannies off? Although far from an M, here's a video of a Lambo demonstrating the car's handling behavior both with traction control on and off. Keep in mind that this is an extreme example, which is done for demonstration purposes. |
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06-25-2018, 04:41 PM | #63 |
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I keep my dcs on when driving normally and with some enthusiasm.
I do enjoy the capabilities that you have with it off. But I'll be honest, I'm not at that level of controlling the car when chit hits the fan. I came from a Tacoma lolll |
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06-25-2018, 04:48 PM | #64 |
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Surprising responses. Guess I am may be getting surprisingly close to "seasoned veteran" (not old) these days. Grew up loving cars and motorcycles. Never had traction control until 2002 Z06, and then I turned it off most of the time. Lots of cars and lots of track days.
No doubt advanced systems have their place and I guess I am glad that most people use them most of the time. Keep in mind however that this is a regular old car, not a F-117 that won't fly without electronics. It won't do what you don't tell it to do. Respect it and gain experience carefully. I love driving with TC off much of the time. I don't like learning/having to rely on electronic interventions that mask what the car is really doing. TC in this car really takes the snap out of a good 1-2 or 2-3 shift. To me its the difference between a smile when it chirps into gear or seeing the TC light flash on the dash and me doing an involuntary "Grrrrrr" like Clint Eastwood in Grand Torino. To each his own, but not sure OP deserves to be called irresponsible or having inappropriate behavior for public roads. Lots of overland trucks with no ABS out there than will squash you like a bug and not feel it. |
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06-25-2018, 05:38 PM | #65 | |
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That's actually the only way I drive mine. No nannies at all ever. Had mine since 2015 so far so good. If you moderate throttle inputs properly you will have no issues. |
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06-25-2018, 05:53 PM | #66 |
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I currently have M1 set up with Euro MDM, and M2 set up with DSC off. If I feel like relaxing, I switch back to M1, and if I feel like driving, I'm in M2. One thing I have found about this car is that I almost always feel like driving. I've always loved driving cars, but I used to be in "relaxed" mode far more often than I am now. I don't even listen to music as much in the car because I want to hear the engine, be attentive to the car's dynamics, and focus on the driving. This car has renewed my love of driving and made me a better and more skilled driver for sure. I see so many people driving around (with some sort of DSC enabled, undoubtedly) distracted and disengaged. I'd far rather they all have their DSCs off, paying better attention, and expecting the rear end to step out on them with the slightest provocation. It brings a certain discipline, deliberateness and caution, at least for me. And I get to fully enjoy the car at its best in the process.
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