09-19-2013, 01:36 PM | #67 | ||||||
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Cheers.
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09-19-2013, 02:16 PM | #68 | |||||
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There are also many other factors that impact this, with aero drag being an important one. The faster you travel, the more power (at the cube of speed) is required to overcome drag and less is available for acceleration. Quote:
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-19-2013 at 02:22 PM.. |
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09-19-2013, 07:30 PM | #69 |
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I'm not sure if your trying to troll me or if you're really having a hard time with this concept. The fastest 0-60 time I can find for the 335IS is 4.7. Were going to use the 1m as an example. It takes 2.7 seconds for the 1M to reach 40 mph and only 2.4 for the M3 to reach 40. That's .3 difference between the two. At 50 the difference is now only .1. Now we know for a fact that the 335is runs a 0-60 in 4.7. In short, what are you talking about when you say you're beating M3's and that a 335IS is faster from a stop light? Do you have an anti lag kit installed on your 335is? Are the M3 drivers you're racing completely incompetent? 1M M3 335IS 0-30 1.7 1.7 0-40 2.7 2.4 0-50 3.3 3.2 0-60 4.2 4.2 4.7 0-70 5.6 5.2 0-80 7.0 6.6 0-90 8.5 8.1 12.8 sec @ 109.6 mph 12.6 sec @ 113.4 mph http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
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09-19-2013, 09:18 PM | #70 | |
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About my aero difference comment that you found laughable for no practical reason I have provided "real" data above without making any comments and swamp2 admitted that it was different enough to make a difference, 1M struggles with the aero deficiency, more so after really high speeds. Of course, you chose to stay silent when a real data contradicted you, very mature! Believe it or not there is less than advertised difference in power and in performance between these two cars, most honest and well informed enthusiasts are not even arguing over this anymore but hey, how would you know, they also don't follow Motor Trend. Any choice between a 1M and M3 is a choice of likes and preferances. I respect anyone who chose M3 sincerely, could do the same myself and find it let's say not-so-well-informed when some M3 owners try to imply a superiority over 1M based on myths and selected data in its best which at the end is absurd. They have their own strengths and weaknesses and they are both great cars, this is still so difficult to admit for some, it really amazes me. At the end, M3 trap speed is higher and that is normal and expected, just not as high as you claimed without quoting any source, like the Prophet has spoken (and now you quoted motor trend, thank you very much) and also called other people being anectodal and knowing less than yourself, you even suggested that we should all go to a new lowly subforum (can we call it Auschwitz?) so we don't bother you anymore which practically gives you a Forum Nazi status while all we were trying to do was reminding that there are other factors, many factors worth taking into consideration and not only the peak power in evaluating a car's overall performance. It doesn't seem to me that singling out just one factor, even if it is the most important one, and reaching conclusions from there and building a whole theory is the right thing to do. It is just an indicator, nothing more nothing less. Neither the World itself nor the roads are made of straight lines friends. You got to slow down and take a turn time to time, that's when overboost could come handy...or if you can't handle it you could ruin everything and crash to something or someone
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09-20-2013, 01:19 AM | #71 |
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Somehow I knew the GT-R would come in first...
But, I thought the Mustang would be last. Poor M1. |
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09-20-2013, 02:47 PM | #72 |
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There is a very nice "database" of M3 and competitors performance here on the forum. Link. It helps show the large variation that occurs in real world test and to identify typical, top notch and outlier types of results.
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09-20-2013, 03:09 PM | #73 |
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09-20-2013, 03:15 PM | #74 | |
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what do you think of the throttle response? thats the one thing that i cannot stand with turbo cars. (i also drive 135i on a daily basis). ADVEVO - his videos are awesome. |
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09-20-2013, 03:19 PM | #75 |
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09-20-2013, 03:24 PM | #76 | |
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
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09-20-2013, 03:25 PM | #77 |
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09-20-2013, 03:41 PM | #78 | |
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Bad news is I don't think you will have it as good as you have it now with the S65, with its individual throttle body engineering, the sensation is best out there imo. My take is there is still lag there with the 1M but it is much better than most other turbo cars. Back to back, from a M3 to 1M you may notice the lag, especially in default setting (M button not pressed), so if anyone tells you that it is totally lag free that person is either lying or his previous cars were STIs and EVOs. I find the default setting more natural in daily driving and I go for the M (sport) button only when I am in the mood and benefit from conditions for a spirited ride. With the M button pressed there is hardly any lag to talk about but then the throttle can be slightly jerky at times, over sensitive if I may call it. Most people love it though and wish that it could be the default setting every time they started the car. Bottomline is, 1M is virtually with a minimal lag that can be largely cured by some easy mods that helps other stuff as well; first is exhaust, especially down pipes but even with a catless mid pipe you have a nicer throttle. Second is a good intake or a slightly better air filter but this is a bit controversial mod since lots of people think stock intake is sufficient enough (myself included). Lastly, a better charge pipe with or without BOV/aftermarket DVs helps noticeably. I have a ER charge pipe, aFe dry drop-in filter and N55 catless mids with a rear muffler and nothing else (stock engine tune, stock DPs, stock DVs, stock intercooler, stock intake); I feel that the lag is virtually disappeared with this set up which was already not a big deal. Some reputable tuners like GIAC and HP Autowerks commented in our Forums that factory 1M already has the best (most crisp) throttle of any N54/N55 that they tested, stock or even tuned cars. Member Advevo whose videos you say you like commented in our forum on this very subject once that for him important thing is when he drives the 1M 10/10 on a track where he noticed no lag and he said that it got better even just with the N55 mids installed, his remark was on/off/on again throttle was slightly more immediate with the catless mids. I agree totally and feel that the engine is breathing better on high revs. On the other hand, he admitted that there is always a slight lag when you make a straight line acceleration. So, M division did a decent job with the 1M in terms of throttle response, but the stock car has some less than perfect parts, exhaust and charge pipe being most obvious and I bet it will be even better with the F80 and will leave less to be desired. However, it is unlikely that it will equal or get better than what you enjoy with the E90 M3. Hope this helps.
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. Last edited by ozinaldo; 09-20-2013 at 04:07 PM.. |
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09-20-2013, 04:22 PM | #79 |
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yes unfortunately there will be no beating the throttle response of the current m3. i personally do not enjoy using the twitchy pedal button
that being said, its good to know that throttle response is improved in the m cars. I also read somewhere that the m5/6 also have great throttle response. to me, its just hard to believe because like you said, coming from the s65 but I will have to test drive one. the n54/5/20 are just horrible. anyone who says that there is no lag in response is just bs-ing like you said, or do not know what instant throttle response is. seriously, this debate is ongoing in all of the other forums that its ridiculous. thanks for your honest nonbiased response! its funny because i left the evo world because i was sick of driving turbo cars and modding the hell out of one, to go back to na, to now having to be forced back to going to turbos and modding the hell out of one |
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09-21-2013, 01:46 PM | #80 |
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09-21-2013, 02:57 PM | #81 |
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09-21-2013, 11:14 PM | #82 | |
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A similar database for the 1M would be a very valuable addition to that section of the forum.
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09-21-2013, 11:23 PM | #83 | |
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I think most folks at all "in the know" expect BMW to make an improvement on top of all other M cars and the 1M in terms of throttle response and turbo lag in the M3/4. It seems less and less likely that we will get a triple turbo and/or a system with one electric turbo which in theory could completely eliminate lag. I'll certainly be a bit disappointed if it is a turbo system very similar to the twin turbos on existing BMWs.
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09-23-2013, 01:50 PM | #84 | ||
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I would ask m5/6 owners in their section of the forum but they just belittle the m3 guy Its just a bunch of m5s will destroy an m3 around the track heresay and launch control videos |
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