Down Pipe Poll

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Has anybody independently dyno tested all of a few of these different downpipes on the same car and same dyno?

I'm curious to see how these all perform in relation to each other. I'm guessing they're all roughly the same, but there are some different design features between a few of these and I'm curious to see how they fair.

All of these downpipes neck-down to 2.5 inches to mate up to the stock exhaust.

I really wish somebody would just make a solid 3inch turbo back catless and resonated exhaust.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Has anybody independently dyno tested all of a few of these different downpipes on the same car and same dyno?

I'm curious to see how these all perform in relation to each other. I'm guessing they're all roughly the same, but there are some different design features between a few of these and I'm curious to see how they fair.

All of these downpipes neck-down to 2.5 inches to mate up to the stock exhaust.

I really wish somebody would just make a solid 3inch turbo back catless and resonated exhaust.

All downpipes will be similar in gains and any difference will be within the error of the dyno and the variance in runs.

Also its a lot of work to do such a test especially if you want to do it same day as taking car on off dyno, on off lift and replacing pipes takes a few hours.

Mike

[coolmody]

Originally Posted by mshab356

That's awesome. I'm sure many would be interested. I would like to get more info on their services, materials used, etc. Anyone with Haute AG you recommend me to speak to?

Or better yet, have them come on the forum and make a bunch of sets for members!

Sent you a PM!

Originally Posted by Nothing

Those pipes have less bends and welds than many of the ones posted.

I agree. The quality of the materials and welds are top notch. They are going to build more sets for members here if there is interest. If they can get a minimum of 10 sets built, the pricing is very competitive. PM me if you are interested.

[Green-Eggs]

http://fi-exhaust.com/index.html

[Voodi]

Do all the listed downpipes have similar sound improvements?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Voodi

Do all the listed downpipes have similar sound improvements?

They should. All fully catless should sound the same. Of course resonated and catted will be different.

Mike

[smedin]

Originally Posted by F82speed

They fab great stuff and they're local, so inclined to go AR, but you got CEL with the HFC version?

Yep. It lights up after some hard driving, then goes away after a day or two of commuting/mellow driving. My dealer blew it off per my request, and I've grown accustomed to it.

NBD. It's still a pretty clean car, which is what I wanted.

[Chan]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

All downpipes will be similar in gains and any difference will be within the error of the dyno and the variance in runs.

Can Tom@EAS or Nate@IND confirm this as well? Was considering the Akra DPs but if there really is no difference in performance and fitment then I could save $900 by going with a "cheaper" brand and using the savings for another mod.

[igom3]

VRSF

[Green-Eggs]

Fitment & Quality are important to me plus customer service in case something goes wrong.

[igom3]

Originally Posted by Chan

Can Tom@EAS or Nate@IND confirm this as well? Was considering the Akra DPs but if there really is no difference in performance and fitment then I could save $900 by going with a "cheaper" brand and using the savings for another mod.

Mike is right!

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Chan

Can Tom@EAS or Nate@IND confirm this as well? Was considering the Akra DPs but if there really is no difference in performance and fitment then I could save $900 by going with a "cheaper" brand and using the savings for another mod.

Honestly, until we start seeing larger diameter downpipes (I.e. 3.5 inch all the way) coupled with larger than 3 inch midsections and rear sections with no neck-downs anywhere, all of these "stock" fitment downpipes will peforme about the same.

I'd save my money and get a set of VRSF or Shiftek downpipes and use the extra cash on something else. I'd go with the ER downpipes if you want to blow a little extra, if that makes you feel better.

[Chan]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Honestly, until we start seeing larger diameter downpipes (I.e. 3.5 inch all the way) coupled with larger than 3 inch midsections and rear sections with no neck-downs anywhere, all of these "stock" fitment downpipes will peforme about the same.

I'd save my money and get a set of VRSF or Shiftek downpipes and use the extra cash on something else. I'd go with the ER downpipes if you want to blow a little extra, if that makes you feel better.

VRSF was actually the "cheaper" brand that I was referring to. HUGE price difference as compared to Akra. I'm also considering the downpipes that AA is coming out with to help support my local tuner but who the heck knows when it will be available (based on how long it's taking them to come out with their exhaust it might be next year).

[tr_ms3]

Both Shifteck and VRSF have been very responsive to me in the past when I have sent emails both pre and post sale. If you are concerned about customer service, with either of those options, you'll be fine. Tiago from VRSF and Graham from Shifteck both respond quickly and professionally.

[XPNY]

Would you say the Eisenmann flex DP is a better choice over GT Haus? I'm leaning towards GT Haus only because I'm running a Meisterschaft Exhaust

[XPNY]

Originally Posted by Nate@IND

Eisenmann's downpipe is designed and built in Germany using the same engineers that build original equipment for Porsche and AMG. During stress testing at the Nurburgring Nordshleife the engineers found that movement of the exhaust system would distrupt the seal of a ridigly mounted downpipe, and can contribute to additional wear over time. The flex section is not a must-have in mild driving conditions, but Eisenmann's downpipe must be designed to function correctly in all driving conditions, for all drivers.







2000 degree Ceramic coating (optional)

Would you say the Eisenmann DP is a Better Choice than GT Haus?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Chan

Can Tom@EAS or Nate@IND confirm this as well? Was considering the Akra DPs but if there really is no difference in performance and fitment then I could save $900 by going with a "cheaper" brand and using the savings for another mod.

There are no performance differences between Akrapovic or ER, the quality is great between the two with slightly better pricing on the ER side. We've installed Eisenmann DPs as well with good results as well as fitment.

However, gains are only part of the equation and fitment and quality count as well as support. Please at least consider supporting the companies that are leading the way in R&D. Without them, there wouldn't be any product for the "other" guys to copy. Support the copycats, and there will be no one to lead the way for new products. Then everyone is affected. It's not like there is any price-gouging on downpipes, as most are reasonably priced.

Intakes on the other hand is a different story altogether. Another time, another thread.

Watch when charge pipes hit the market next, and what companies follow up with copied product months later. This seems to be the going trend lately, and a lot of the established manufacturers are going elsewhere.

Then again, this is only my opinion.

[Chan]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

However, gains are only part of the equation and fitment and quality count as well as support. Please at least consider supporting the companies that are leading the way in R&D. Without them, there wouldn't be any product for the "other" guys to copy. Support the copycats, and there will be no one to lead the way for new products. Then everyone is affected. It's not like there is any price-gouging on downpipes, as most are reasonably priced.

Thanks Tom for your feedback. I've read a lot of your posts in other threads and know how strongly you feel about supporting the "originators" and not the "copycats" or else those companies won't bother manufacturing components for our vehicles anymore. The copycat trend is especially true when you look at the Cosmetic and Lighting Modifications threads where designs are blatantly being copied by various vendors. Your message is one of the reasons why I will be looking at products from RKP, Vorsteiner and 3D Design when I am ready to purchase those types of mods.

However, in regards to downpipes, how much ingenuity/R&D is there? My perception was that due to the relatively short length of the piping, each design was practically the same. Since it appears the diameter of the various downpipes are consistent, the only design differences are the inclusion/exclusion of a flex section and ceramic coating. I am a complete noob to the mod scene so that it is a completely honest question and not one meant to spark debate. Just want to educate myself about tuning as much as possible so I can make informed decisions. Thanks in advance.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Chan

Thanks Tom for your feedback. I've read a lot of your posts in other threads and know how strongly you feel about supporting the "originators" and not the "copycats" or else those companies won't bother manufacturing components for our vehicles anymore. The copycat trend is especially true when you look at the Cosmetic and Lighting Modifications threads where designs are blatantly being copied by various vendors. Your message is one of the reasons why I will be looking at products from RKP, Vorsteiner and 3D Design when I am ready to purchase those types of mods.

However, in regards to downpipes, how much ingenuity/R&D is there? My perception was that due to the relatively short length of the piping, each design was practically the same. Since it appears the diameter of the various downpipes are consistent, the only design differences are the inclusion/exclusion of a flex section and ceramic coating. I am a complete noob to the mod scene so that it is a completely honest question and not one meant to spark debate. Just want to educate myself about tuning as much as possible so I can make informed decisions. Thanks in advance.

Quite a bit. Most established manufacturers have their own vehicles for R&D and know these vehicles inside and out.

ER for example has an extensive racing background and are very well known on the N54/N55 side. They have their own M4 solely for development. Their products are developed in house, tested on the street and track and have earned their reputation. Dyno info is readily available, as it was performed at our facility.

On the flip side, there are the what most call replicas. The word has been so watered down so much it has very little meaning as the correct term is counterfeit. A competitors piece is purchased, jigged and copied, with zero investment in R&D. A new company starts up and doesn't have to spend these costs as the info is already out there, so there's very little money invested. Instead, they are offered at a ridiculously low price (likely manufactured overseas), which is the only thing left to make it attractive and compete with known brands. Most times the companies replicating them have no experience with the M3/M4, maybe never even set foot in one. It's simply making widgets, and its a copy. Sometimes other companies even copy the copied product, N54 side is flooded with it. We're seeing the transition on this side now that the M3/M4 is now turbocharged and those manufacturers (and retailers) want in. The M4 has been out for barely a year and the overseas factories are pumping out copied product in record time.

We've had the cheap stuff brought in, there are always issues and it's tough explaining it to the customer since they are simply trying to save a few bucks. One set (nameless) had incorrectly machined flanges and would not mate to the turbos. We had to reinstall the OEM pipes back into place and bill the customer for the labor, since the parts were provided by them. Customer gets upset since they've based their decision from a well-written review (a lot of them are paid reviews, a much longer length topic) on discussion forums like these. Ethically, it's wrong. These types of products make tuning shops like us look bad since we're the ones that have to deliver the bad news to the customer. With reputable companies - we stand behind them, it's part of the service and the b2b relationship involved. These situations just don't happen.

I know this will not be a popular response with most, but it's the sad reality.

[Dan Halen]

Tom, never bought anything from your company, but wholeheartedly agree with your statement and sentiments and will for sure request pricing for parts from you in the future. Buy from the people who are IN the community- not those who only want to take money FROM the community.

[jeff@autocouture]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Quite a bit. Most established manufacturers have their own vehicles for R&D and know these vehicles inside and out.

ER for example has an extensive racing background and are very well known on the N54/N55 side. They have their own M4 solely for development. Their products are developed in house, tested on the street and track and have earned their reputation. Dyno info is readily available, as it was performed at our facility.

On the flip side, there are the what most call replicas. The word has been so watered down so much it has very little meaning as the correct term is counterfeit. A competitors piece is purchased, jigged and copied, with zero investment in R&D. A new company starts up and doesn't have to spend these costs as the info is already out there, so there's very little money invested. Instead, they are offered at a ridiculously low price (likely manufactured overseas), which is the only thing left to make it attractive and compete with known brands. Most times the companies replicating them have no experience with the M3/M4, maybe never even set foot in one. It's simply making widgets, and its a copy. Sometimes other companies even copy the copied product, N54 side is flooded with it. We're seeing the transition on this side now that the M3/M4 is now turbocharged and those manufacturers (and retailers) want in. The M4 has been out for barely a year and the overseas factories are pumping out copied product in record time.

We've had the cheap stuff brought in, there are always issues and it's tough explaining it to the customer since they are simply trying to save a few bucks. One set (nameless) had incorrectly machined flanges and would not mate to the turbos. We had to reinstall the OEM pipes back into place and bill the customer for the labor, since the parts were provided by them. Customer gets upset since they've based their decision from a well-written review (a lot of them are paid reviews, a much longer length topic) on discussion forums like these. Ethically, it's wrong. These types of products make tuning shops like us look bad since we're the ones that have to deliver the bad news to the customer. With reputable companies - we stand behind them, it's part of the service and the b2b relationship involved. These situations just don't happen.

I know this will not be a popular response with most, but it's the sad reality.

As true as it gets, back in the day Vorsteiner was replicating the OEM E46 Csl trunk because it was expensive and hard to find, while its one thing to replicate an Oem part thats almost impossible to get (GTS, GT4, CRT parts). Its an entire issue to replicate a 1 off design as RKP or 3d for example, and then claim the quality is just as good or if not better when they don't line up.

We see it to many time and 9 out of 10 customer will wind up buying the real part after due to quality and fitment issues

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Guys, with regards to downpipes, I just don't see the argument. Damn near every set of downpipes is the exact same.

By using your same argument, whoever did the first set of downpipes for the S55 is the originator and the rest are just counterfeit copies, regardless of name brand or not. They're all pretty much the same. There really isn't much R&D for a set of downpipes fellas, let's be honest. I know better as I've been involved in lots of serious R&D projects in this industry.