No full LED tail lights - doesn't make sense

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Wah

Just hope they don't change the shape so it can be done.

They won't. Body changes are much more expensive to accomplish, and they didn't do this last 2 generations.

[smedin]

Model evolution games aside, incandescent bulbs vs. LEDs are an arguable safety issue. LEDs light up faster than filaments, enough that, at speed, the tailgater behind you sees the LEDs light up approximately 10 feet sooner than the filaments. In this context, the decision is bullshit.

[thebigcheese]

Originally Posted by smedin

Model evolution games aside, incandescent bulbs vs. LEDs are an arguable safety issue. LEDs light up faster than filaments, enough that, at speed, the tailgater behind you sees the LEDs light up approximately 10 feet sooner than the filaments. In this context, the decision is bullshit.

+1

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by smedin

Model evolution games aside, incandescent bulbs vs. LEDs are an arguable safety issue. LEDs light up faster than filaments, enough that, at speed, the tailgater behind you sees the LEDs light up approximately 10 feet sooner than the filaments. In this context, the decision is bullshit.

You guys are ridiculous. Majority of the cars on the road have incandescent lights. People aren't running into each other because of them. A tailgater's reaction time is not going to be increased because of a damn LED bulb. A greater following distance is the only thing that's going to keep somebody's front end out of your trunk.

P.S. Standardizing HID headlights will do more for "safety" than any LED tail lamp. Most cars still use halogen bulb headlights.


Sincerely,

Your Friendly Neighborhood Highway Patrolman

[Raja Ventureshield]

cuz they like totake two steps backwards then three steps forward.

[Wah]

Obviously the lack of LEDs hasn't irked me enough to wait until the LCI, but I think its ridiculous that a premium car with all the bells and whistles like the F8x doesn't get premium tail lights even as an option. They did good by at least making them partially LED lit, but to purposely go backwards like that is just stupid. I doubt I will spend the money to retrofit LCI tails, but I hope that for the next generation, they stop playing this game.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Wah

...but I hope that for the next generation, they stop playing this game.

They won't. LCI is the name of the game they've been playing since 2001 (..with the 2003.5 E46 ///M3)!

[khanyam4]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You guys are ridiculous. Majority of the cars on the road have incandescent lights. People aren't running into each other because of therm. A tailgater's reaction time is not going to be increased because of a damn LED bulb. A greater following distance is the only thing that's going to keep somebody's front end out of your trunk.

P.S. Standardizing HID headlights will do more for "safety" than any LED tail lamp. Most cars still use halogen bulb headlights.


Sincerely,

Your Friendly Neighborhood Highway Patrolman

[Wah]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

They won't. LCI is the name of the game they've been playing since 2001 (..with the 2003.5 E46 ///M3)!

Well, when the next gen M4 comes out with a 4 cylinder hybrid power unit, they will have no choice but to use only LEDs to reduce energy consumption. Perhaps they will go back to hand cranked windows and manual seats so they can introduce the power windows and seats package for the LCI.

[Mako]

Am I the only one that can't stand to be behind a car at night that has LED tail lamps??? especially when its a taller car than your own (SUV vs sports car), gives me a headache how bright they are.

headlights are a different story, but I wish all cars would stick with non LED tail lights.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Mako

Am I the only one that can't stand to be behind a car at night that has LED tail lamps??? especially when its a taller car than your own (SUV vs sports car), gives me a headache how bright they are.

headlights are a different story, but I wish all cars would stick with non LED tail lights.

I like the easy replacement of an incandescent. When the individual LED's start to go out (..and they DO, indeed, go out), LED tail lights become an eyesore......


.....kinda like a missing tooth!

[Race_Doc11]

+1000 We know how they play the game now.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

They won't. LCI is the name of the game they've been playing since 2001 (..with the 2003.5 E46 ///M3)!

[stressdoc]

If it is accurate that LEDs improve stopping time, then that is relevant regardless of the importance of other factors (safe distance etc.). Especially true for a M3 that can stop so much quicker than other cars. I have nearly been rear-ended when cars behind me don't have same stopping power.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

If it is accurate that LEDs improve stopping time, then that is relevant regardless of the importance of other factors (safe distance etc.). Especially true for a M3 that can stop so much quicker than other cars. I have nearly been rear-ended when cars behind me don't have same stopping power.

I don't believe it's true, and I investigate traffic accidents for a living. If you take the emotion out of it, this M3 stops just a well as an E46/E9X (..let's not get into a fastidious discussion about specific stats). Those cars had LED's and incandescents; there's nothing to suggest that one style of light technology reduced accidents over the other. The biggest factor(s) in accident reduction are the attention span of the driver(s) behind you, driving behavior, fatigue and alcohol/drug influence. An LED tail lamp is not going to save your ass if the driver is following at too close a distance. Following too closely AND/OR excessive speed are the primary causes of accidents.

I'm all for preference. If you just prefer LED's because it makes you feel high tech (.."you" used as a general term), that's one thing, but let's not kid ourselves into believing that it's some technology that's going to have a significant impact on safety/accident reduction. It's a preposterous notion on its face! Brake force flashing is a solid case for safety, but the tail lamps are capable of doing that regardless of the incandescent or LED light source. Even with that considered, very few cars on the road employ that technology. Now, HID/LED headlamps on the other hand have a solid safety case. The amount of useable/vibrant light and the reduction in eye fatigue are notable benefits.

[stressdoc]

Not my area of neurobiology, but I looked up some studies of LED effects. Bottom line is that at 65mph, they result in a one car length shorter stop. That is significant, and likely would save some lives over a year.

The Q here is whether LEDs provide a quicker signal response. Lab studies indicate that they do, for two reasons: 1) LEDs light up faster than ICs (i.e., time of brake pedal press to photons emitted by brake light is shorter), and 2) the human visual processing system detects and responds more rapidly to the LED, although this is partly a strength of signal (brightness) effect.

http://chemistry.beloit.edu/blueligh...p/an1155-3.pdf
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstr...pdf?sequence=1

Are driver attention and car spacing more important? Of course.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't believe it's true, and I investigate traffic accidents for a living. If you take the emotion out of it, this M3 stops just a well as an E46/E9X (..let's not get into a fastidious discussion about specific stats). Those cars had LED's and incandescents; there's nothing to suggest that one style of light technology reduced accidents over the other. The biggest factor(s) in accident reduction are the attention span of the driver(s) behind you, driving behavior, fatigue and alcohol/drug influence. An LED tail lamp is not going to save your ass if the driver is following at too close a distance. Following too closely AND/OR excessive speed are the primary causes of accidents.

I'm all for preference. If you just prefer LED's because it makes you feel high tech (.."you" used as a general term), that's one thing, but let's not kid ourselves into believing that it's some technology that's going to have a significant impact on safety/accident reduction. It's a preposterous notion on its face! Brake force flashing is a solid case for safety, but the tail lamps are capable of doing that regardless of the incandescent or LED light source. Even with that considered, very few cars on the road employ that technology. Now, HID/LED headlamps on the other hand have a solid safety case. The amount of useable/vibrant light and the reduction in eye fatigue are notable benefits.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Not my area of neurobiology, but I looked up some studies of LED effects. Bottom line is that at 65mph, they result in a one car length shorter stop. That is significant, and likely would save some lives over a year.

The Q here is whether LEDs provide a quicker signal response. Lab studies indicate that they do, for two reasons: 1) LEDs light up faster than ICs (i.e., time of brake pedal press to photons emitted by brake light is shorter), and 2) the human visual processing system detects and responds more rapidly to the LED, although this is partly a strength of signal (brightness) effect.

http://chemistry.beloit.edu/blueligh...p/an1155-3.pdf" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://chemistry.bel...1155-3.pdf</a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...-3.pdf</a></a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...df</a></a></a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...a></a></a></a>
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstr...pdf?sequence=1" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://deepblue.lib....sequence=1</a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...ence=1</a></a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...=1</a></a></a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...a></a></a></a>

Are driver attention and car spacing more important? Of course.

Theory and the practical are two different things. I go based on what I see/have seen over my 8 or so years patrolling highways and cleaning up and investigating traffic collisions. I suppose we can agree to disagree on this one. I stand by my original position regarding the assertion that the lack of LED's poses a significant safety issue over incandescent bulbs. It's a downright silly statement.

[GBPackerfan1963]

[christof30]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Totally agree.

100% agree!

[motex]

I just noticed that my M4 does not have rear LED tail lights, I mean the turn signals bulbs, they are conventional bulbs, not sure about the stop lights?

Is my car missing an option? or is an M4 standard?

[Wah]

No full LED tails available.

[M4CAB]

Truly puzzling why they would not make all bulbs LED.

[Jdebitjr]

BMW always seems to save the led tails for the LCI