6MT or DCT?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by crashtestdummy81

the DCT equipped car almost 17% more torque in 1st, 12% in 2nd,

Which is utterly useless due to traction limitations, especially in first

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by gthal

This is great info and very relevant... also why the DCT "feels" faster IMO. This would be more relevant than modulation of the clutch as it pertains to wheel spin IMO.

I believe that the 6MT actually has better gearing than the DCT. First gear is way too short on DCT; it is just not possible to put the power down in first. On the F8X, we just got a hand-me-down DCT from the F1X ///Ms.

See my long rant on the topic here.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not quite. One big benefit of DCT is that it allows one to shift mid-corner without upsetting the balance of the chassis due to weight transfer.

I never find myself shifting mid corner

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I never find myself shifting mid corner

If you drive a 6MT, I am sure you don't

At my local track, there are 2 corners where I can take advantage of this. Instead of short shifting before going into the turn like all MT cars, I can just keep the lower gear to maximize acceleration and then shift mid corner when nearing red line. DCT senses that the car is under lateral load and executes a butter smooth shift .

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you drive a 6MT, I am sure you don't

At my local track, there are 2 corners where I can take advantage of this. Instead of short shifting before going into the turn like all MT cars, I can just keep the lower gear to maximize acceleration and then shift mid corner when nearing red line. DCT senses that the car is under lateral load and executes a butter smooth shift .

Pretty cool tbh, and I never gave that any thought. My only rebuttal is that the 6MT is super fun.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

My only rebuttal is that the 6MT is super fun.

Agreed. I have to admit that, on occasion, I do miss rowing my own gears and nailing that perfect heel and toe. At least I still have my wife's 6MT S4 to indulge when I feel the urge

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Agreed. I have to admit that, on occasion, I do miss rowing my own gears and nailing that perfect heel and toe. At least I still have my wife's 6MT S4 to indulge when I feel the urge

My girlfriend only drives 6MT cars too, so I'm quite happy about that. I'll switch when they go away for good

[X2Board]

Originally Posted by neurotichamster

How gives cares what's faster? Get what makes you feel happy! For me, it's 3 peddles. As long as the make 'em, I'll buy them. This always makes me smile...

/thread.

Oh, how I've missed rowing my own. I had my son's '06 GTO today, and it was good to get some footwork in, even if the shifter feels like it came out of dump truck.

[l!ve]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Pretty cool tbh, and I never gave that any thought. My only rebuttal is that the 6MT is super fun.

What the hell! Just shift mid-corner with the manual too!

Agree that for the track, DCT is definitely faster. But for me, I still prefer a dedicated track car and keep my M3 on the streets, so manual or DCT both works.

[AreOut]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If you drive a 6MT, I am sure you don't

At my local track, there are 2 corners where I can take advantage of this. Instead of short shifting before going into the turn like all MT cars, I can just keep the lower gear to maximize acceleration and then shift mid corner when nearing red line. DCT senses that the car is under lateral load and executes a butter smooth shift .

I bet the difference in time would be minimal, just look at power curve from F80 and you'll see you won't squeeze more than 5% if so using lower gear and that would be pretty much offset by more weight of that DCT car.

Different story with E92 though.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AreOut

I bet the difference in time would be minimal, just look at power curve from F80 and you'll see you won't squeeze more than 5% if so using lower gear and that would be pretty much offset by more weight of that DCT car.

Different story with E92 though.

I agree, there is less impact on the F8X, but there is one nonetheless. If you need to short shift on a 6MT F8X and bring the RPM below 5500RPM, you will lose time.

[Fahrvergnügen]

The larger (heavier) male body part of manual drivers would cancel out the decreased weight of the 6mt in the F8x. Thus, the 6mt will always be slower

[crashtestdummy81]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

DCT on the F8X is 40kg (88lb) heavier than 6MT

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Which is utterly useless due to traction limitations, especially in first

I would say this extra torque more than offsets the weight penalty of the DCT, so not entirely useless.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by crashtestdummy81

I would say this extra torque more than offsets the weight penalty of the DCT, so not entirely useless.

It is useless because the tires cannot convert the extra torque in forward momentum, it just goes in tire smoke

[JoeFromPA]

Why can't I shift mid-corner with my rev-matching 6MT without affecting weight transfer (to a notable degree)?

I occasionally shift down to 3rd or 2nd or 4th to 3rd mid-corner on a exit ramp that I'm taking aggressively and with the auto rev-matching it's very fast, extremely smooth, and I don't feel any jerk in weight transfer EVER.....which was why historically I didn't do it, because I couldn't focus on maintaining a line, body control, and perfectly rev-matching with my right foot and shifting all at once.

Now I only have to focus on line/body control and shifting the gear.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Why can't I shift mid-corner with my rev-matching 6MT without affecting weight transfer (to a notable degree)?

I occasionally shift down to 3rd or 2nd or 4th to 3rd mid-corner on a exit ramp that I'm taking aggressively and with the auto rev-matching it's very fast, extremely smooth, and I don't feel any jerk in weight transfer EVER.....which was why historically I didn't do it, because I couldn't focus on maintaining a line, body control, and perfectly rev-matching with my right foot and shifting all at once.

Now I only have to focus on line/body control and shifting the gear.

They're talking more about on the track when the car is close to the limit on a turn. With the rev matching feature of 6mt you might be ok shifting gears mid turn but be careful.

While it's common knowledge that it's not a great idea to shift while your turning at the track, it does happen. I find my self doing it occasionally if I'm in traffic and have had to slow down (so probably not at the limit at that point).

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by neurotichamster

How gives cares what's faster? Get what makes you feel happy! For me, it's 3 peddles. As long as the make 'em, I'll buy them. This always makes me smile...

/thread.

Apparently, I've been driving manuals wrong my entire life. I wonder what else I'm doing wrong ...


Maybe I should get some white socks.

[LH44]

If you're shifting mid-corner, you're doing it wrong.

[CSanto]

Here's how I made my decision.

My E92 M3 was a DCT. After 4 years of ownership, I was bored, looking for something to trade her in for. I decided on supercharging over selling. I had the car for 2 years with it supercharged. The speed is fun, but with the DCT is still felt a TAD lacking. You always get used to speed.

While I had my E92 my brother got a 1M. This is probably the most fun M car I've driven except for my fathers E46 M3 (also a manual).

So, the straw that broke the camels back was when my father got the F10 M5. DCT obviously. Its fast as hell, but still just not as fun as the 1M.

What makes the 1M fun? The manual, and the light weight.

So I said to myself. Whats to say that in 5-10 years manuals wont be completely eliminated from all production cars. This might be my last manual NEW car.

I also took that 3k, and put it towards the ceramics. =)

[Mik3ymomo]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I agree, there is less impact on the F8X, but there is one nonetheless. If you need to short shift on a 6MT F8X and bring the RPM below 5500RPM, you will lose time.

Doesn't the 6mt have rev matching for this very reason? It allows smooth shifts without upsetting the car.

It allows mere mortals to shift without having to heal toe.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Mik3ymomo

Doesn't the 6mt have rev matching for this very reason? It allows smooth shifts without upsetting the car.

It allows mere mortals to shift without having to heal toe.

I am talking about upshifting here, not downshifting.

On a 6MT, there is a period of time where no power is transmitted to the rear wheels during a shift. During that short moment, the car's acceleration is interrupted (the car actually decelerates slightly during the shift). This interruption of acceleration shifts the weight transfer from the rear wheels to the front wheels. Doing this while cornering at the limit upsets the balance of the chassis and can send the car in a spin.

With the DCT, during a shift, the power is passed from one clutch to the other without any interruption of power transmission to the rear wheels. The chassis therefore remains perfectly balanced during a shift even when cornering at the limit.

Auto rev match, while great for downshifting, will not help at all for what is mentioned above .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FC4

If you're shifting mid-corner, you're doing it wrong.

Very true with a 6MT.

But with DCT, you're not .