6MT or DCT?

[Someone?]

LOL, this was a point of argument on the E9X forums at least once ah month, and its always the same thing (purest< which is BS) if you like a Manual get one there cool , if you want a DCT thats cool(er),
Ive driven Manuals for a lot of my life, but got so sick of them, theres never a brake with a Manual, then i got a DCT and it made 1 Thing Clear, i WILL NEVER OWN A MANUAL AGAIN, EVER! I can get into a Stick car and drive it like a pro right now though, but i dont want to. The DCT is pretty much better in ever aspect, But nothing wrong with what someone wants, But dont buy a 70+K car and not get a DCT cause its cheaper, do it cause its what you REALLY want.

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

This isn't a DCT vs 6MT debate. It's a 6MT vs a 6MT with rev matching debate.

Thank-you for paying attention and reading carefully.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

The question is whether the 6MT with rev matching has the same type of experience as a non-rev matched 6MT. And the answer is unequivocally yes.

Can you explain why that's the case for you? If it's because you drive in Sport+ all the time, then I assume the reason would be that it really is an unadulterated 6MT in that mode (no rev matching) and I would shift my question to how you find the throttle map in Sport+. I have read other posts where some complain that it's too 'on/off', jerky, and sensitive. I know that in my e92, I do not like the "Power" setting for those reasons. I prefer a less sensitive throttle because it gives me more room for controlling the input.

So while I have driven the F82 6MT, I didn't try Sport+ mode when I did, and I'm keen to hear more about how that throttle map affects the experience.

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by ibmike

LOL, this was a point of argument on the E9X forums at least once ah month, and its always the same thing (purest< which is BS) if you like a Manual get one there cool , if you want a DCT cool tot here cool(er),
Ive driven Manuals for a lot of my life, but got so sick of them, theres never a brake with a Manual, then i got a DCT and it made 1 Thing Clear, i WILL NEVER OWN A MANUAL AGAIN, EVER! I can get into a Stick car and drive it like a pro right now though, but i dont want to. The DCT is pretty much better in ever aspect, But nothing wrong with what someone wants, But dont buy a 70+K car and not get a DCT cause its cheaper, do it cause its what you REALLY want.

No. That's NOT what my OP is about.

[BMWJ]

thankfully when you purchase this car you have the option of MT or DCT - what would we do without choices.....

[Projectile]

I really am not trolling. I've been around here for years and consider myself somewhat of an enthusiast. But I am having a hard time getting my head around the 6MT that BMW has offered in the F8_'s, rev-matching in particular.

For me, the fun of my 6MT is rev-matching. It's not pushing the clutch in and letting it out and it's not moving the gear lever in and out of gates. While those are a necessary part of the 6MT experience, it's rev-matching (and, of course, to some extent, launching, though I think drag racing is boring and a silly way to wear your clutch) that's the challenging and fun aspect. I guess that I see the 6MT with rev matching as being a lot closer to a DCT transmission than one without ... so similar in fact, that the DCT might become the more satisfying choice as offered in the F8_.

[SakhirM4]

What a dumb thread. I have the 6MT because I enjoy it. Once I got used to it, I even enjoy the auto rev matching. I didn't get the 6MT because it was cheaper, but because I wanted it. Guess I have no skill.

Anyone who thinks that auto rev matching turns the 6MT into a DCT has no clue.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Projectile

I have driven the F82 6MT, and it does rev match on up shifts.

Next time you drive yours, shift up but avoid releasing the clutch. After a few seconds, you'll see the RPM drop from from the rev matched RPM to the idling RPM.

No it doesn't

Go ahead and drive one and shift from 1-2 without touching the throttle. Tell me if the shift is rev matched. Here's a hint, it's not

[nachob]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

rev matching is definitely lame....I would have it deactivated if it was on any car of mine...

so rev matching on your own is the only reason to get a manual? I think not.

It's lame for me because they don't give you an easy way to turn it off, just like active sound. The poster does have a point but it's still so much better for me than the automatic. Most of the joy for me is in the upshifting and controlling the engagement.

The one thing that I think is positive about this feature is that it might encourage more techies to go with MANual just like the hill-hold feature took away one of the non-manual crowds anxiety points. I thought hill-hold is a cool feature that many don't know exists. I would have to put hill-hold as a feature that added value and didn't really interfere with enjoyment. The rev matching can and BMW should let your turn it off if in all modes if you wish.

What is maddening for me is that they force you to put up with idrive and the stupid screen so you have all of these silly customizing options yet they don't give you the option to turn off the rev matching or active sound.

[04cobra]

Here I will answer it for you. I drove the DCT and hated it. It was boring to drive, I couldn't control the car how I wanted to control it and therefore will be ordering a manual.

[black335i]

Most likely standard can handle more power if your going large turbo

[JonnyM3]

personally can't wait for my manual m4 to arrive, rev match or not...i'm sure the rev matching can be coded off eventually if its not already figured out.

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by nachob

It's lame for me because they don't give you an easy way to turn it off, just like active sound. The poster does have a point but it's still so much better for me than the automatic. Most of the joy for me is in the upshifting and controlling the engagement.

The one thing that I think is positive about this feature is that it might encourage more techies to go with MANual just like the hill-hold feature took away one of the non-manual crowds anxiety points. I thought hill-hold is a cool feature that many don't know exists. I would have to put hill-hold as a feature that added value and didn't really interfere with enjoyment. The rev matching can and BMW should let your turn it off if in all modes if you wish.

What is maddening for me is that they force you to put up with idrive and the stupid screen so you have all of these silly customizing options yet they don't give you the option to turn off the rev matching or active sound.

I agree with everything in this post, and I like the point about hill-hold adding value *without* interfering with enjoyment.

Why BMW didn't permit turning rev-matching on/off in as simple a fashion as the 'Power' button increases/decreases throttle sensitivity in my e92 is a mystery to me.

Nevertheless, it may well be that "going through the motions" is still more fun than pulling a paddle on a purely emotional level, even if rev matching does significantly minimize the challenge (and for me at least, fun) of a MT. I could easily understand that. But the rational side of me would be telling me that these motions I'm going through are a bit of a joke so why not give up on them and just get the faster and more versatile transmission ...

[Lynchmob6]

There is no right answer here. Each person gets the transmission that they prefer for reasons that they desire. I chose the 6MT in this car for two reasons: first, I had a automatic in my 335, and frankly, I got somewhat bored driving it without the manual; and second, I feel like I am much more a part of the driving experience when working through the gearbox.

But I am certainly not saying that this is the only way to go. To each his/her own. Pick the right transmission for you and for your reasons.

[AM4ZING]

Grow some balls and buy a Manual.

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

No it doesn't

Go ahead and drive one and shift from 1-2 without touching the throttle. Tell me if the shift is rev matched. Here's a hint, it's not

It doesn't follow from whatever is supposed to happen in the scenario you describe that the upshift is not rev-matched. Applying no throttle immediately after an upshift is just bad driving and no way to determine if a shift is rev matched. The absence of throttle input after the new gear is engaged will cause the car to decelerate abruptly.

However, from the fact that revs drop from the rev-matched RPM to the idle RPM, as I described on upshifts when the clutch is not released immediately, it *does* follow that up shifts are rev matched. Without rev matching, the RPM should just drop directly to idle when the clutch is in.

You have provided what is known as a non-sequitur.

Plus, one of the other posters in this thread has already confirmed that up and downshifts are rev matched in all but Sport+ modes.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by nachob

It's lame for me because they don't give you an easy way to turn it off, just like active sound. The poster does have a point but it's still so much better for me than the automatic. Most of the joy for me is in the upshifting and controlling the engagement.

The one thing that I think is positive about this feature is that it might encourage more techies to go with MANual just like the hill-hold feature took away one of the non-manual crowds anxiety points. I thought hill-hold is a cool feature that many don't know exists. I would have to put hill-hold as a feature that added value and didn't really interfere with enjoyment. The rev matching can and BMW should let your turn it off if in all modes if you wish.

What is maddening for me is that they force you to put up with idrive and the stupid screen so you have all of these silly customizing options yet they don't give you the option to turn off the rev matching or active sound.

agreed. love the hill assist...helps me a lot when I get stuck in city underground parking lots trying to get out.

rev matching is a dumbing down of the manual gearbox....for sure. Part of the enjoyment of manuals IS becoming better and mastering the little nuances of manual gear changes. A shame these cannot be deactivated easier...

Still even the most 'techie' manual gearbox would be sooooo much more engaging and enjoyable than a dual clutch. I owned an Audi S Tronic gearbox for 2 years and was bored out of my mind with it. I don't care about any of the arguments....my experiences are more important to me than opinions!

[LH44]

Originally Posted by Lups

I think your commend summed it all up. No need for more words.

Of all the threads you post in and subsequently ruin, you make one normal post in this one then leave? C'mon now...start talking about the color of your dog's poop or your usual inane banter to round up all the simple ones and fade this thread to nothingness.

Thanks.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by FC4

Of all the threads you post in and subsequently ruin, you make one normal post in this one then leave? C'mon now...start talking about the color of your dog's poop or your usual inane banter to round up all the simple ones and fade this thread to nothingness.

Thanks.

Yeah, sorry, I'll try not to do this mistake again. Lets keep internet serious!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Projectile

It doesn't follow from whatever is supposed to happen in the scenario you describe that the upshift is not rev-matched. Applying no throttle immediately after an upshift is just bad driving and no way to determine if a shift is rev matched. The absence of throttle input after the new gear is engaged will cause the car to decelerate abruptly.

However, from the fact that revs drop from the rev-matched RPM to the idle RPM, as I described on upshifts when the clutch is not released immediately, it *does* follow that up shifts are rev matched. Without rev matching, the RPM should just drop directly to idle when the clutch is in.

You have provided what is known as a non-sequitur.

Plus, one of the other posters in this thread has already confirmed that up and downshifts are rev matched in all but Sport+ modes.

You're arguing with a guy who has owned a 1M, a DCT and MT E9X and currently owns a manual F80.

I think he knows the difference.

[ZPinhead]

1. Nostalgia
2. Cost

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Projectile

It doesn't follow from whatever is supposed to happen in the scenario you describe that the upshift is not rev-matched. Applying no throttle immediately after an upshift is just bad driving and no way to determine if a shift is rev matched. The absence of throttle input after the new gear is engaged will cause the car to decelerate abruptly.

However, from the fact that revs drop from the rev-matched RPM to the idle RPM, as I described on upshifts when the clutch is not released immediately, it *does* follow that up shifts are rev matched. Without rev matching, the RPM should just drop directly to idle when the clutch is in.

You have provided what is known as a non-sequitur.

Plus, one of the other posters in this thread has already confirmed that up and downshifts are rev matched in all but Sport+ modes.

rev matched downshifts work by the computer blipping the throttle / making sure the engine is at the exact rotational speed that it should be for the gear you select. this is done instead of doing this by yourself by either a normal rev matched downshift, or a heel/toe downshift when in a braking situation. that's auto rev matching on downshifts

so, its pretty easy to see how this would work on an upshift. the computer would have to not letting the engine RPM get lower than it should be for the next gear. it does not do this in my car. when doing it on your own, typically that's why you have to have overlap with coming off the clutch and on the gas when upshifting.

I have noticed no difference in rev hang when in sport vs sport plus in my car. upshifts are easier in sport plus, mainly due to the improved throttle response for me. I will say there does seem to be some sort of electronic interference or more lag in sport mode vs sport plus. BMW's explanation is the existence of an anti lag mode that is activated in sport plus. the effect is noticeable in my experience.

finally, there is a big difference in how jerky a shift feels between just unloading the clutch and unloading the clutch IF the computer has kept the RPM where they should be for the engagement of the next gear.

Regardless who cares, drive whatever you like

[golovko]

The advantage of getting the MT over DCT is simple...you know with confidence when you get out of the car that you left it in gear and the hand brake is up.

ok I''m done trolling. I had to order the MT for my M3. I haven't had an automatic transmission in almost 15 years.